Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Paladin, Jan 22, 2020.
Clarifying to those who think success and failure should be equally likely outcomes, I suppose.
Patently untrue. People do win the lottery, after all.
Not the average person.
This post, and the replies that followed, is a perfect illustration of the lie that is the "American Dream".
It's why shitheads like Trump get into power, and why the average American believes the horeshit that's fed to them by the Republican and Democrat Parties.
There's no lie.
The lie is in the presumption that success and failure should be or can be equally likely. They're not and never will be.
Want to be a doctor? Study hard for many years, work long hours. Want to not be a doctor? Do nothing. The outcomes require very different inputs and are not nearly equally likely.
The American Dream isn't a prize you get just for showing up.
Oh, yes there is.
There's a mindset in the United States, which I've never seen anywhere else, that somehow you're only ever a few good decisions away from being rich and/or famous. Being set for life is just around the corner! This mindset is prevalent in the very large swathes of under-educated reality-television watching Americans (i.e., 75% or more) who consistently vote for politicians that are clearly acting against their own best interests.
The American Dream is a lie. Plain and simple. The fact that you don't see that is the proof. Quod erat demonstratum.
P.S. - mods, perhaps everything from post#456 onward should be its own thread, rather than derailing this one?
Bullshit. That's how leftists straw man the American Dream.
The truth is more like: stay in school, work hard, make wise decisions and you will attain a measure of prosperity.
And it's true. You will find exceptions--the guy who does everything right but gets pancreatic cancer, or the couch potato who buys a winning lottery ticket--but the odds are strongly in your favor if you work for it.
Said no one seriously ever.
Most Americans have achieved some level of prosperity, hence having the leisure tine to watch reality TV. 64% of American households own their own home. It's practically feudalism!
And it's arrogant to proclaim you know better what the interests of others are. Many people would choose a life of work over a more comfortable one given as a handout.
The lie is that prosperity can doled be out like government cheese. It can't. Someone has to work for it.
Yeah yeah, laugh while you can, monkey-boy.
You may not get wealthy following Paladin's method, but with a modicum of luck (or by avoiding too much bad luck) you'll be comfortable enough. Where most people fall down is in the "wise decisions" part. I'm sorry the world didn't hand you everything you ever dreamed of with no effort on your part, but if you give the government the power to do that, you also inescapably give it the power to take everything away from you and dictate how you're going to live.
Ah yes, the American Fantasy.
I've seen enough relatives get ground into hamburger.
It's not "rare exceptions", it's the norm.
Amazing how a lot of legal immigrants to the U.S. are suckered into "the America dream" and end up working hard, staying out of trouble, and living a better life than their relatives back in Greater Oppressinya who stayed behind.
are you giving 100 percent effort in these areas? If not, why not? It's okay if you don't, there are plenty of people to take your place.
Yeah, especially those nice ones from Sweden, not those ones from shithole countries.
Reduced to what @Paladin claims it is, there's nothing American about the American dream. And social mobility is greater just about everywhere else in the developed world.
There used to be something to it, before about the last 40 years.
Excluding recessions, "downsizing," serious illness, fires/tornadoes/floods/earthquakes/crop failures, wars, terrorist attacks...
I'm sure the folks at Cantor Fitzgerald believed that on September 10, 2001.
I can remember hearing about the American Dream in first grade. We start the indoctrination young in this country. It’s a way to convince people they are just pre-rich. So if you’re going to be rich one day don’t you want to espouse the views and political beliefs of those rich people?
Here in FL I come across decaying mobile home parks packed with retirees. These people worked hard their entire lives and now they are almost entirely dependent on government entitlements. Some nice dream, eh?
That would be the "wise decisions" part in action.
Let me share my own example. I paid attention in school, went in the military and got a technical education, put up with a lot of bullshit over the last 40 years, and the upshot is that I make more than three times my father's maximum income from his peak earning period. The downside(s) is that I live in a pretty expensive area (DC metro), and I spent nine months unemployed in the early 90s during the "we won the cold war" retraction of DoD spending.
Now, I'm halfway intelligent but no soaring genius, and I'm also pretty lazy. If I can make out okay just by weighing options carefully, y'all should be able to do it as well.
Nope, all of that was due to moral failings.
God didn't like them for some reason.
Probably caught them looking at porn.
@Paladin's an atheist. He doesn't even have the "God did it" excuse. His failing is to apply his own successes to the rest of humanity and wonder why some of them don't measure up.
Which gets to my point. Paladin, like me, is no-one special. And yet he's done all right for himself. Hmmm . . .
Average people win the lottery all of the time.
By magically avoiding all the things listed in Post #17. Wow.
What percentage of those who buy lottery tickets actually win? Take your time...
I'll take that to mean you don't understand how lotteries work.
Yeah, cuz a lot of rich people play the lottery.
Rich gamble-holics are typically at the craps table, the baccarat table, or the horse track.
You realize you're making my argument for me, right?
Separate names with a comma.