Apple: Pot, meet kettle.

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by We Are Borg, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. Kyle

    Kyle You will regret this!

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    The court order (available here) did specify that Apple should also specify the monetary cost of this action, suggesting that it may be remunerated for its services.

    Considering the amount of development time and Q&A that would have to go into such an update, it'd probably be in the high six figures at least.

    Another interesting wrinkle in all of this is that there's precedent for considering code as speech - it could be a violation of the first amendment for the government to compel Apple or its employees to write code.
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  2. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Hard to argue against that.

    Rush Limbaugh used a pretty good analogy this morning: imagine the FBI wants to break into a terrorist's safe, so they go to the safe's manufacturer. What they request is not the combination to that *one* safe, but a means to open *any* safe made by that manufacturer.

    If this could be done such that only the one phone is hacked, I'd support the court's decisions. But that this provides a means to open any Apple phone makes me leery.
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  3. Kyle

    Kyle You will regret this!

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    The court order requests that it be targeted to the phone in question. But that's not enough. I'm sure Apple can add a bit of code that checks the processor serial, the IMEI, etc. Once signed by Apple as the last step before DFU deployment, to my understanding, those values couldn't then be altered by the FBI or the like.

    But even with that protection, the FBI has got exactly what they want - a tried-and-true, court-approved way to force any company to break their own security on-demand. It doesn't matter that it was targeted to that one phone, because there's nothing stopping them from making the same demand again, over and over, for any technical challenge. They're explicitly asking for a tool, but they're implicitly asking for a right, and it's one that's obscenely dangerous.
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  4. gturner

    gturner Banned

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  5. Kyle

    Kyle You will regret this!

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    Well, I think it's generally a good rule of thumb to, at the very least, not take the Daily Mail at face value. Those phones did not have their data encrypted - essentially, it could be read via relatively unsophisticated forensic techniques, even outside of Apple. In fact, Apple has a standard procedure to assist law enforcement officials in obtaining this data from legacy devices and OSes. iOS 8 (I think, it might have been 7) introduced full-disk encryption, and with it, the promise that anyone who gained access to a device would face, for all intents and purposes, an impossible task in retrieving it without the owner's consent. Android would follow suit shortly after, but given that device manufacturers and carriers can modify it as they see fit, I don't know that it provided the same peace of mind that iOS offered.

    Now, the big question about that leaves is - if LEO have been asking for data from older devices and OSes, they'd certainly continue to ask for more modern tech. It's certainly convenient that they decided to make their case for this access with the specter of terrorism, rather than the fear of some Walter White wannabe. Almost like they knew it had the potential to sway public opinion.
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  6. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Mexican Joker

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    Imagine if Steve Jobs were alive, he'd be irate. This definitely sets a bad precedent. As an apple customer, I'm happy that they're sticking to their guns, but I'm guessing the government will find a way to beat them.
  7. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    I'm not happy. Terrorists want to kill Apple customers, and Apple wants to make sure they do so unhindered.
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  8. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Mexican Joker

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  9. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Mexican Joker

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  10. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Also have not had time to read this story yet but I bet a lot of those 70 phones were 3, 4, and early 5's which do not have the encryption that the later 5 and 6 models have.

    The early Apple phones are easy to crack. It's why Apple upgraded things with the later 5 and 6 models.
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  11. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    I am glad they finally came to their senses and abandoned the Steve Jobs way of bringing big brother into every nook and cranny in your house. They could still be providing police with programs that can download all your cell phone data right into their little computers in their car for evidence.

    I have a joke for you. How many Itards does it take to change a lightbulb? They can't because it is inside the box.


    It is a bit cerebral and probably not funny at all, but thanks apple for coming around to what the rest of us knew long ago.
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  12. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    I have boycotted the iphone ever since I tried to hook it up to my fusion through synch and my car called 911 on me. I shit you not, my car actually started dialing 911 when I connected it to my Iphone. Then I returned the iphone in a loud and furious manner. My car never called 911 when I connected it to android devices.
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  13. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Audemus Jura Nostra Defendere

    (Tim Cook is a fellow Mobilian)
  14. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Mexican Joker

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  15. Minsc&Boo

    Minsc&Boo Fresh Meat

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    Steve Jobs was a sociopath.
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  16. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Your called 911 because it wanted to be rescued from you and your drunkenly ways.
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  17. The Esquire of Gothos

    The Esquire of Gothos The Squire of Gotham

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    Given the mass murderous carnage that happened in San Bernardino, I think the FBI has every right to open up & examine all the data & information ON THAT ONE PHONE!

    And ONLY that phone.
  18. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    You realize the FBI is lying right?

    They don't actually care about his iPhone. He didn't care about his iPhone either. It was his work phone.

    Do you know what happened to the other phone the mass murderer did care about? He destroyed it.

    He destroyed one phone but leaves the other one untouched? There is nothing on that iPhone as this terrorist was smart enough to have another phone other then the iPhone for his communications.

    The FBI has been sparring with Apple for years over the encryption. They are using this issue to try and force the argument their way. This issue about the phone was made public by the FBI to try and embarrass Apple into making them a key.

    And there is no way of making a key that can only open one phone. Once that key is made it can open any iPhone on the entire planet.
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  19. NeonMosfet

    NeonMosfet Probably a Dual

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    And when that happens, we're dealing with Microsoft.
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  20. K.

    K. Sober

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    And that's impossible.
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  21. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    It does not do that with android devices. Oh, and @Rusty Shackleford is the one who likes to drive drunk around here. Sounds like something a youngin would do.
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  22. K.

    K. Sober

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    Android's a slut. :shrug: I like it.
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  23. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    My mind does not get Apple methodology. I used to be able to see windows methodology and then they went all boxy. Android is really easy to use and get used to.
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  24. Amaris

    Amaris Witchy Woman

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    I hope Apple sticks to their guns on this one. Give these guys an inch, and they'll take two miles while they're still asking for that first inch.
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  25. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Mexican Joker

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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  26. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    I think the FBI is going to take the entire operating system source code from Apple. Yes, they can probably do that.
  27. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Hmm, I just heard a Chinese insurance magnet just bought the Hotel del Coronado for $6.5 billion. That is $2 billion more than Donald Trump has.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  28. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    Well, the Chinese built it so I guess it's okay if they own it.
  29. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

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    Certainly an attractive offer, though I suppose like anything it has its negative side.
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  30. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    FBI wants Apple to unlock iPhone in Boston gang case

    If you think this is only about terrorism, think again. Of course, gang-bangers aren't any more popular than terrorists, but they nevertheless have rights.