Autonomous cars: unintended consequences

Discussion in 'Techforge' started by MikeH92467, Mar 21, 2018.

  1. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Again, not minimizing their problems, but...

    Someone with a degree can more readily become a substitute teacher or coffee shop manager than someone without one.

    The guy who drives a delivery van is going to have a much harder time finding something else to step down to.
  2. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Don't be a dick about the things you don't like

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    This is why we need the Thanos finger-snap.

    Or go the Golgafrincham route.

    :jdance:
  3. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    "Or go the Golgafrincham route."

    We already did if you had bothered to read the history book by Douglas Adams.

    The B-Ark's destination was Earth.

    [​IMG]
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  4. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Don't be a dick about the things you don't like

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    That's got "major class-action lawsuit" written all over it. :blink:
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  5. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    “If you know you can save at least one person, at least save that one. Save the one in the car,” von Hugo said in the interview.

    And that's why my future cars will probably be Mercedes.

    No way I get into any self-driving car where the car has the option of deciding I'm less valuable than some idiot that walked out in the middle of the traffic lane because they are an asshole.
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  6. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Don't be a dick about the things you don't like

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    1. Mercedes are for Nazi assholes. No debate on that issue; it's a proven fact.

    2. You're assuming it's a binary choice. It's not.
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  7. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Keep that leftist shit to the Red Room.

    It pretty much is a binary choice.

    The car's primary function should be to deliver it's passengers safe to the destination. That means the priority is always the passengers.

    No car should be given the ability to choose between possibly killing it's passenger or possibly killing someone outside the car.

    Yes the car should take care to avoid accidents like a kid running into the street but if the car is in a situation where it has to choose between hitting the kid or slamming it's passengers into a tree it should always hit the kid. Always.
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  8. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    You're assuming that the car will be programmed to take the second option. If, however, it isn't permitted to have that option by law, then what?

    Also, how often do you think that a car will have to make such a choice? Given that with inept meat monkeys at the wheel now, a person is likely to be in only one major accident in their life, I can't imagine that number going up with robots driving.
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  9. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Don't be a dick about the things you don't like

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    Why does the choice have to be either killing a kid or killing the passenger?

    What about the choice between hitting a kid or hitting the elderly woman next to him?

    What about the choice between hitting a kid or hitting the dog he's walking?

    What about the choice between hitting a kid or you know, just safely stopping?

    You're thinking binary. Any driving situation is not binary. I don't think AI has advanced to the point where it can effectively make those kind of judgements. Hence, the very simple fact that Mercedes Benz is going to open itself up to many, many, many lawsuits if it purposely programs its autonomous vehicles in such a way.
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  10. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    The car should do everything it can to safely stop or avoid an accident without hurting anyone. (Human or animal but yes humans should take priority over animals)

    The car should never be allowed to decide to hurt the occupants inside of it in order to avoid hurting someone outside of it. The car's first priority should always be to protect the passengers inside of it. Even if that means something outside the car gets hurt.
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  11. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    This is about Uber and Lyft, but it will certainly apply to self-driving cars as well.
    liver.png

    There's a link to the study in the article, BTW.
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  12. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Don't be a dick about the things you don't like

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  13. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    so riddle me this - if (according to the law and more importantly to my auto insurance company) I have to have both hands on the wheel anyway, then I might as well just be driving the car myself! :lol: It's like mounting your TV's remote control on top of the TV itself! :shrug:
  14. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    Isn't there a "level of harm" factor, in that steering into a tree or guardrail and therefore possibly injuring the passenger is better than steering into a pedestrian and almost certainly killing them while leaving the passenger unharmed?
  15. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Self-driving cars can't see Black people.
    Lest anyone thinks that this should be surprising, I submit to you this montage of clips from the 2009 TV series "Better Off Ted" that pointed out the problem of tech not being able to see Black people.

  16. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Article doesn't say that.

    It's poorly written and researched.
  17. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Really? How on earth did I get that idea from a headline that says, "Autonomous Cars Can't Recognize Pedestrians With Darker Skin Tones"?
    It cites work done by the UK government and Georgia Tech. But here's a bunch of links to articles from mainstream publications (as well as tech mags) all pointing out that when it comes to AI and people of color there's huge problems:
    https://www.wired.com/story/an-ai-run-world-needs-to-better-reflect-people-of-color/
    https://time.com/5520558/artificial-intelligence-racial-gender-bias/
    https://peopleofcolorintech.com/articles/meet-the-black-women-trying-to-fix-ai/
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...orities-needed-facial-recognition/3451932002/
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...tion-systems-casts-doubt-their-expanding-use/
    https://www.cnet.com/news/why-facial-recognitions-racial-bias-problem-is-so-hard-to-crack/
    https://towardsdatascience.com/the-...mmigrants-and-war-zone-civilians-e163cd644fe0

    In short, it's a known problem in the tech industry, and they're slowly trying to address it.
  18. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    The software they reviewed is 5% less likely to see a dark skinned person at night.

    They don't have any idea how well actual vehicles perform.