Beer Belly Putsch AFTERMATH Thread

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by shootER, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. Elwood

    Elwood I know what I'm about, son.

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    Two things. First, I've already deleted this post twice because I don't want to sound bitter as I'm writing extemporaneously. Second, I don't want to further derail this thread.

    As you can probably guess, I'm not a "topical" preacher. I'm an exegetical preacher. For those that don't know what that means, it means to pull the meaning out of the text rather than using the text to fit our argument or describing the text via our preconceptions. We pick a book and go through it, word by word, pulling the meaning, context, and author's intent as best we can understand it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This has been our pattern for the last ten years. For the past three years, we've been proceeding word by word through the Acts of the Apostles.

    Because I'm not a topical preacher, the chances of me using the pulpit ministry of the local church as a bully pulpit is greatly reduced. We cover contemporary issues as they come up in the text and only when they come up in the text. For those who have studied the book of Acts, you can imagine how many of the concepts and practices of the first century church would go over like a lead balloon in 21st Century rural Alabama. Personally, I blame Dispensationalism, specifically Pre-Tribulation, Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism. For those playing the home game, the Left Behind books.

    Dispensationalism is the key to American exceptionalism within the American church. It's taught its adherents to engage in headline eisegesis. To look in the headlines for signs of the coming return of Christ. Modern Dispensationalism is a direct result of the Schofield Bible. No Schofield Bible, no Dispensationalism. No Dispensationalism, no Christian Nationalism in the White Evangelical Church. No Christian Nationalism in the White Evangelic Church, no Donald Trump as the 45th President of the United States.

    I'll give you three guesses which bible my Head Deacon uses and the first two don't count.
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  2. Rincewiend

    Rincewiend 21st Century Digital Boy

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  3. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    I see from the Wikipedia article that the Scofield (sic) Bible was a major influence on Hal Lindsay who wrote The Late, Great Planet Earth. I read that book in high school and even as an impressionable teen-ager decided that the guy was a major asshole, profiting from fear-mongering and hypocrisy. I'm sorry you got sacked, but as we used to say in radio, never trust anyone who hasn't been fired. I would like to think that a preacher who sticks to preaching what the Bible actually says should be able to find a better home. Good luck.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  4. Tererun

    Tererun Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    I would agree that the targets will remain within the US. I also think that the real areas you would have to worry about border crossing would be the west coast. You could avoid US authorities crossing the northern border, but the great lakes limits your ability to get into the northeast where the right wing would want to attack. I do not know what the northern border looks like in the west, but it would be easier to stay in the US on the northeastern border because most travel is limited to choke points by the lakes. Even running to canada is made harder because of those choke points. By the time you get around the lakes you are already in areas where it would just be easy enough to hide in the dakotas and montana.

    When you figure everything from domestic US terrorism is really going to come from inside the US Canadia is probably not in too much trouble. Even if there were a big civil war the more likely place to get arms would be the mexican border or the coastlines of texass through southwestern floriduh. I would imagine south and central america would be far easier to purchase arms from the black market, manufacture weapons, and maybe even get some paramilitary help from than canada.
  5. Tererun

    Tererun Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    I may disagree with you from time to time, but I know it sucks to be removed from something you love because you are protecting it from itself, and you have a goodhearted real reason to make such claims. Sounds like they need more voices like yours, and I am sorry they did not come through for you when you needed them to.

    However, if it is any consolation it does seem to be the sort of thing jesus went through. I am not a jesus guy as I believe more in a trickster guide. A lot of times the best lessons about how to handle adversity and things like this tend to be painful and humiliating. I cannot say my guides act in mysterious ways because the lessons often stick better and cut deeper that way. It is still nice to know I can bounce, so I hope you can too.
  6. Useful Idiot

    Useful Idiot Fresh Meat

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    It would awesome to hear one of your sermons. I'm a non-believer, but approaching worship from a textual POV sounds really interesting.
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  7. Jenee

    Jenee Ind. Jenee of Winterfell

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    I was a child last time I heard a sermon that was actual interpretation of the text rather than applying 2000 year old texts to modern society. Probably why I completely left the church behind as a young adult.
    I must have misread your original post. I thought you’d quit rather been asked to leave. Have you considered a UU church. Most of my group of friends attend a UU church. And while I’ve only attended when the sermon was not centered on a biblical text, I’m told that when it is, it’s much like you described.
  8. Useful Idiot

    Useful Idiot Fresh Meat

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    My biggest problem with church is, as with most things in life, the presence of other people. There's also my complete lack of belief in anything resembling a higher power.
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  9. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    Wow, it sounds like you and I have been on pretty similar paths (though maybe a generation apart). I'm from the Canadian border rather than Alabama, but dispensational fundamentalism is pretty strong in some parts of rural Michigan, too, and that's what I was steeped in as a child and a young man (I still have a Scofield Bible on my book shelf, though I open it only on very rare occasions, and never for the notes). More power to you that you got away from it while still being right there in the USA; I had to go to the other side of the world and an entirely different Christian tradition to discover something else. And I fully agree with exegetical preaching. (I did Acts a few years ago myself, then the Gospel of John, then 1 and 2 Peter. Right now I'm in Numbers.)

    For the last few years of his life, my dad was a preacher in Alabama, so I know something of the situation there. These are mostly people who, while claiming the Bible as their authority, are more influenced by tradition than just about any Catholic I know. But keep up the good work, man. There are still people who are willing to hear the truth.
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  10. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    You would have to do a whole lot of translation of terms for me to follow what you're saying here, I'm afraid.
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  11. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Truth is relative to the group you belong to. This is true of religion and politics.

    Follow the loner.
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  12. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM Conversant in dark parables

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    Is it okay if I can't spell the loner's name?

    I mean, I *can* spell Kaczyczyczynczski, I just don't know when to stop.
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  13. Faceman

    Faceman Negative Creep

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    Maybe Elwood should become a Lutheran.
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  14. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    I'm imagining @Elwood duct taping 95 theses to the door of his now former church :yes:
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  15. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  16. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    He's got 95 theses but Leviticus ain't one.
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  17. Faceman

    Faceman Negative Creep

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    he better revise it for the Twitter generation. Keep it tight!
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  18. Jenee

    Jenee Ind. Jenee of Winterfell

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    My brother is a Lutheran Minister. It’s just as bad as Elwood’s church. And it’s the one I left for those same reason 35 years ago.
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  19. Rincewiend

    Rincewiend 21st Century Digital Boy

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  20. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  21. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    My brother-in-law is a Lutheran, in upstate NY. He is very much a Trump supporter.

    Doesn't sound like Elwood's thing.
  22. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Luther would be preferable to Trump, let's be honest.
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  23. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Is he Missouri Synod? There’s two wings within the Lutheran Church, one of which is the Missouri Synod and they’re little better than Falwell types when it comes to beliefs.
  24. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM Conversant in dark parables

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    We'd at least have Superman to keep him in check.
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  25. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Klan of Green Gables gets her Twitter account pulled.

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  26. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  27. Elwood

    Elwood I know what I'm about, son.

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    Christianity can be viewed like a giant, generational tapestry that started over 10,000 years ago. The Triune Godhead would be at the center, made with thread from the finest gold. When looking at the tapestry, it's clear that some materials have been better than others and some weavers have been more skilled than others. But, when you look closely, you can see that even though some sections are ragged and made from poor materials, it's still all woven together as a single piece. I say this because all theology as we understand it today is woven in with older traditions and teachings. It's all built one on top of the other.

    For instance, a reasonably knowledgeable believer should be able to point to the ancient influences on their particular tradition (or denomination, if you prefer). Different ideas about practical theology started to creep into the Church almost immediately upon its creation. During this time, the safeguard against heresy were the Apostles themselves. They would either decide issues themselves or appoint trusted men in positions of leadership scattered across the Mediterranean region that could answer these questions with some, limited authority short of Apostolic authority. This period was necessary because, at the time, the canon of Scripture was not closed. You can't adhere to the Reformation principle of Sola Scriptura if you're still adding to the Scriptura.

    But, at the close of the Apostolic Age, when the Scirptural Canon was closed, we are left with fallible man's interpretation of scripture. Certain great men through the ages have had important ideas, but none of them were divinely inspired and thus, inerrant. For instance, I'm a big fan of many of the early church fathers, Augustine of Hippo, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox, John Owen, Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, J. I. Packer, et al. But, while all were wise and godly men, they were not infallible and I do not agree, completely, with all of their assertions.

    Thus, as with most other Christians, I find myself as sort of an amalgamation of various different traditions and schools of thought that reach back through the ages and, hopefully, point to Christ and his death, burial, and resurrection. In the US, the biggest difference between myself and your standard, boilerplate Evangelical is that I understand this and know how we've arrived where we are. But, then again, that's part of my tradition. I'm a 1689 Federalist, which means I use the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith (1689) as a clear statement of my beliefs. I do not, under any circumstances, believe what I believe merely because it is in the 1689. While useful, it is not inspired, inerrant scripture and it is only true and accurate insofar as it adheres to scripture. But, even then I have reservations. For instance, I do not agree with Chapter 22, Paragraphs 7-8 interpretation of the "Sabbath."

    But, I digress, the English Particular Baptists celebrated and encouraged knowledge, reason, and wisdom. It was important to them for all believers to know and understand this for the sole purpose of better understanding God, the world, and our place in it. Now, I've told you a little bit about where I'm coming from in this discussion so I can tell you more about the larger history.

    For every force, there is always an equal and opposite reaction, right? Well, Christianity is no different. Without the rise of Calvinism, there would be no Arminianism. Arminianism was a reaction to the increase in popularity of Calvinism. The Remonstrants of Jacobus Arminius listed five specific charges against Calvin's doctrines at the Council of Dort. This one, specific argument was over the roll of the agency of man and free will as it pertains to the Ordo Solutis, a series of conceptual steps necessary to obtain salvation within the larger Christian faith. So, here in the United States today, centuries later, you can divide churches into Calvinist or Arminian. I'm the former, most are the latter. This fracturing of threads in our hypothetical tapestry is not absolute though. I have no problem accepting the statements of faith from my Arminian brothers and sisters around the globe and I do consider them, warmly, as brothers and sisters in Christ.

    Another area of disagreement that has arisen in the last few hundred years is the abandonment of the orthodox, historical view of Covenant Theology. Reducing Covenant Theology to a few basic words is absurd and removes any real understanding, but I'll endeavor to explain it as simply as possible. Covenant theology looks backward because the bible itself is built on, and a history of, a series of covenants. It's one thing for me to tell you about Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. It's another thing entirely to show you, in scripture, that it happened and why it was necessary. That's the fullness of the gospel.

    In contrast to this is the rise of Dispensationalism. Again, trying to break this down clearly and efficiently is beyond my means, but I will try. If Covenant Theology looks back, Dispensationalism looks forward. Dispensationalism is primarily focused on the return of Christ and the creation of His Kingdom. Thus, most Dispensationalists either pay lip service to the Old Testament as merely a historical text or ignore it outright. Rather than engaging in expositional exegesis, considering the whole of scripture and viewing it as a beautiful work of a holy and loving God, they look forward and await the "Day of the Lord" where the wicked will be punished.

    The Covenant Theologian that believes in predestination knows that the Lord will save all whom he chooses before He returns. The Covenant Theologian that leans towards free will prays that the Lord will tarry so that all that can be saved, will be saved. The Dispensationalist prays that God will return so that they can be glorified with Him. That the wicked will perish is secondary, or even unimportant.

    The Covenant Theologian knows that Christ is a "King in Being." He is the creator and sustainer of all. He is the author and finisher of our faith. That the Kingdom of God is at hand. That He is, currently, seated at the right hand of the Father fulfilling His role of Prophet, Priest, and King. That He is, currently, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Dispensationalist turns Christ into a "King in Waiting." They may not strip Him of His deity, but they do strip Him of his authority over matters on earth.

    In closing, a better writer and thinker could have explained this in a better fashion, but I submit this to you as is. My hope is that you understand things just a little better than you did.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  28. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    I was thinking Ted Bundy. Easier to spell.
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  29. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    triune godhead?

    Sorry to be disrespectful, but that sounds pretty ER Burroughs. I haven't read the rest. I just finished watching the New Yorker video (here it is again):

    There's some pretty good prayin' going on about 7 minutes in.

    link
  30. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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