Black Panther (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by Paladin, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Just saw it.

    Very solid, though like Wonder Woman, the political significance of the film is casting a halo of a great film over a good one. Still, I'd say upper third Marvel, and that's pretty good.

    The leads are reasonably solid, though T'Challa is written a little flat, and only changes a little over the story. The supporting cast is stellar. Danai Gurira is wonderfully fierce, but with a twinkle in her eye. The little sister who's Q to T'Challa's Bond should've annoyed me, but she was charming enough to win me over.

    Killmonger's a pretty good villain--and I like that the film lets us sympathize with him a little--but I think the film suffers a bit by letting Klaue be the focus through the first act.


    The critics are right about the worldbuilding: Wakanda seems fully realized as a place.

    I didn't care for the plot contrivance of the vibranium-nullifying train tracks, but it's a comic book movie so you go with it.

    I didn't find the politics overbearing though, since the film deals in part with whether rich and powerful Wakanda will give of itself to the (poorer) rest of the world, some parallels with modern politics are inevitable. There is one not-too-thinly veiled shot at Trump's border wall, but an earlier critique of excessive openness--and how refugees are to be handled--goes unanswered.

    Best Marvel origin story? No, I think Iron Man and Guardians of the Galaxy were better. This one's about equal to Captain America or Dr. Strange.

    Post credit scenes don't do much. The first is just the epilogue of the film, the second answers a question about a loose end hanging in Wakanda.

    So, I liked it. I'll probably try to see it once more while it's at the theaters.

    7.5/10.
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  2. ed629

    ed629 Morally Inept Banned

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    Haven't seen it yet, but I never thought I'd be this excited to see a grown man dress up like a cat.
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  3. matthunter

    matthunter Antira

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    Suuuurrreeee.

    Khajiit would not bet against this one.
  4. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    Don't we have a wordforge member who dresses up as a cat? Asking for a friend
  5. matthunter

    matthunter Antira

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    Khajiit only dresses up online...

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  6. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    I'm glad they went there, Trump swipe and all.
    BP's always been a political character.
    Tiptoe-ing past that would be as much a betrayal of BP as avoiding the feminist roots of Wonder Woman.
    :shrug:
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  7. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Caught it yesterday - very impressed on a number of levels.

    The world building is done so very well, and with minimal recourse to being Anglicised, Wakanda looks fantastic and there is no shying away from it being African.

    Acting is top notch, the villain isn't only someone you can sympathise with, but actually comes to the table with valid points - which T'Challa comes to recognise. And whilst Killmonger follows a familar MCU motif of the past coming back to haunt you, he can sit there with Loki, Kingpin, Cottonmouth and Vulture as someone who was done well. Marvel frequently fails on it's villains, but most certainly not here.

    The politics won't go down well with the Trumpeteers, and to echo @Paladin one argument on the other side goes uncountered, which is a shame. It's not an easy one to answer, but would be worthy of BP as it's a film that asks the difference between doing what is good, and doing what is right, which in movieland is usually the same, but in reality, not always no matter how much we may wish otherwise.

    I'm hoping BP2 continues with such questions, not least with questions on colonialism and integrating with other cultures - although it'd lend itself more to a series than to a movie.

    As for Paladin's other query, the SK bit was obviously to get the SK movie industry funding as shown in the credits... It's probably the only bit that didn't really need to be in, but was nevertheless an entertaining and elegant showcase of Wakandan weaponry, especially with Andy Serkis revelling in playing Klaue. Baby don't huuurt me, don't hurrrt me no more :lol:

    The historical intro of Wakanda is also very well done, and makes JL's equivalent look highly clunky in comparison.

    There are two stingers, mid-credits is nicely done and with a nicely done political snipe, post-credits isn't worth waiting around for. Head for the pisser and watch it on YouTube later.
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  8. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Opening weekend, $192 million domestic, $360 million worldwide.
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  9. K.

    K. Sober

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    As I already said in the other thread, I'm over the moon with this movie. It does such a great job at creating an imagination that is political not because it is at all realistic, but because it gives you hope, as all the best Golden Age SF and all the best Afro-Futurism does.

    I did see T'Challa as having undergone a profound change in this story. Compare the two talks he has with his father: In the first, he worries that he will fail in copying him. In the second, his father has become a mistake he will not repeat. And then, of course, the character and the country are presented as somewhat the same (in an affirmative use of monarchical imagery that frankly already bothered me a bit in Thor 3), and so the massive change of Wakanda within this story, going from reliance on obsolete ritual and dynasty to a reliance on the people choosing their ruler, also redefines him.

    The sequence in South Korea accomplishes a lot of things. It relates Wakanda to an international stage that is not the US, further corroborating the worldbuilding that surrounds this fictitious country, even while showcasing how they deal with other countries, and how they deal with the US. It introduces Morgan Freeman as a witless but heroic CIA agent. introduces Killmonger to T'Challa, and perhaps most importantly, it has the Justice League of Wakanda (tm) work as a team before they run into bigger trouble later in the movie.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  10. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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  11. Anduril

    Anduril So tired Git

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    I liked the movie but there is not political significance to this movie. Some articles will have you believe this is the first film with a black man in it.
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  12. K.

    K. Sober

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    Perhaps it is time to move this to the Red Room. Politics and all, right? That would also invite the appropriate response to that post.
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  13. The Flashlight

    The Flashlight Contributes nothing worthwhile

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    It's a good movie, entertaining, but the political significance has been massively overhyped.
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  14. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    so is the imaginary ignore button...
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  15. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    You know how I know the film is politically significant? This. :async:
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  16. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    The movie as artistic expression is not all that significant, but a major big-budget franchise tentpole with a black director and (essentially) an all-black cast? Of course that's politically/culturally significant.

    I maintain that the movie is overhyped, that the film in itself is not especially groundbreaking, and that the (near) universal acclaim for the film is somewhat driven by its political/cultural significance.
  17. K.

    K. Sober

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    I think the movie is massively significant as a work of art. It does what Hollywood does best, create an immersive wish fulfillment fantasy, that carries the mindset of racial equality and hope; it describes an African as well as an African American position of strength and at once binds positions of strength to their moral responsibility. In short, it provides a dream, and it's the right dream.
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  18. Tuttle

    Tuttle Khaaaaaaaaaaann !!!

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    Yeah they're still talking about Dances with Smurfs.
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  19. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    It was a really good movie, without a doubt entertaining. Pretty much everyone in it kicked ass. Definitely in the top 5 or 6 Marvel movies all time for me.

    Marvel sure is on a roll lately with this movie, Ragnarok and Spider-Man, and only have a small movie called Infinity War up next.
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  20. Nautica

    Nautica Probably a Dual

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    Saw it last night and was impressed. Acting was generally good, the plot was fine--I do have a couple of nitpicks but nothing major. The world-building was, as expressed above, excellent!
    Honestly I'd rate it in my Top 5 of all the Marvel movies, and possibly in the top 3.
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  21. K.

    K. Sober

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    I think my top list would start something like this now --

    1 Black Panther
    2 Civil War
    3 Guardians 1
    4 Avengers 1
    5 ... now you get into murkier territory. Possibly Thor 3.
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  22. Skrain Dukat

    Skrain Dukat Banned

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  23. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Was busy this weekend and didn't see it. :(

    But like I said before, T'Challa is kind of a big deal in comics history, so it's only fitting that his movie should be a big deal as well. However, I do take issue with the oft-heard claim that this is the first major comic book movie with a black hero. Obviously the Wesley Snipes Blade movies - the first one especially - helped to set the stage for the whole MCU.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  24. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    People don’t think of Blade as a comic book movie.

    Blade came out right when comic book movies had a bad rap thanks in large part to the Batman movies. So there is as no push behind it as a comic book movie. It was just an action flick with vampires. A good one.
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  25. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Marvel owns Blade again, I'd love to see him canonized without rebooting.
    Drop a Wesley Snipes cameo into Luke Cage season 2, have him say a throwaway line that hints that those movies happened, boom, done.
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  26. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Besides Blade, there was also Spawn with a black lead actor.
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  27. Nautica

    Nautica Probably a Dual

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    Blade wasn't a comic-book movie, it was a vampire movie.
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  28. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Yeeaah.....ssss...Spawn wore a mask, and when he wasn't masked, he looked like Freddy.
    If you were a black kid, would you be cheering on a guy that looked like Freddy?
    Is that real representation?
    Ehh....
    I look at that more as one of the movies Luke Cage and Black Panther had to triumph over.
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  29. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    You're biased because he was disfigured?!?

    FACIST!!!




    :diacanu:
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  30. The Esquire of Gothos

    The Esquire of Gothos The Squire of Gotham

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    What are the expectations of/from "Black Panther II" now?
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