Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by oldfella1962, Jun 7, 2019.
But to be fair, do they talk much about any kids in the bible?
True, but you figure it's JESUS, you'd think he'd use his superpowers to take his school friends on a treasure adventure like "Goonies", or...something!
Because the books that made it into the biblical canon were decided upon via committee.
If Christ were celibate, how come Paul never mentioned it?
I'm sure the logical fallacy here isn't hard to spot....
What about all those animals having sex and those non Christians getting married?
What about the numerous branches of Christianity which have allowed polygamy?
Christians break them all the time in his name, why make an exception on this one?
Amazing the arguments fans will have over what counts as canon.
TAS? STV? DSC?
Seriously, I think they'd kill each other over this stuff given half the chance!
Wait, oh, yeah, they do.
All the time.
Doesn't seem quite so funny now really....
Because Jesus was perfect. Christians are not.
So you don't even have to try?
Then what's Christianity even for?
A "get out of Hell free", card without having to do fuck-all to earn it?
No one "earns" their salvation. that is very clear in the New Testament.
Jesus never existed, Christians do.
You don't have to be good because Jesus took all of that away, or at least he would have had he existed.
You have to obey. And obedience means not committing sins to the maximum extent possible.
So, you can be a total asshole, and just say "well, I did my best ".
Because God is tricked by lawyer-balling.
Do you ever think that life is a test and that a lot of Christians just think because they claim to know Jesus he's going to let them pass, but they still act like awful pieces of shit. I don't believe in God, Jesus or any other magical creature, but if I were a Christian I'd be Ned Flanders (the early years where he was a decent guy in contrast to Homer and not a parody of Christians).
I take that back, I believe in Loki, the MCU Loki. I'm pretty sure if I pray enough he'll come to my house.
HE'S NOT DEAD!
The idea is that God knows what is in everyone's hearts. He knows whether they are sincerely trying to do what is right and doing it because they love God and Jesus. In the Old Testament David was called "a man after God's own heart" yet we all know David committed the worst sins possible at one point in his life. At the height of his blessings from God in fact. Adultery and murder.
So he knows you're so full of shit it comes out your ears.
You should just go ahead and set yourself on fire to get a taste of it.
Been there. Done that.
You should really give god your apologies for the horrors he sees when he looks into the black sludge that is your heart.
Evidently another thing you suck at and failed.
What do you believe that this demonstrates? It contains reference to all three, but nothing to indicate that the spirit is a separate entity in any sense, nothing to indicate that Jesus is part of the Godhead and no doctrine of the trinity.
It is anything but clear in the New Testament. Either way, that statement is entirely at odds with this one:
Make your mind up.
You show your acceptance of the unearned grace of God by obeying him. No one "earns" the money when they win a lottery but they still have to buy a ticket.
First Christ made the claim that He was God: John 8:58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
The Spirit of God descended and came upon Christ as a separate entity and the Voice of God came from heaven was from a separate entity from both the Spirit and Christ. One God, there persons.
Ok, drawing this back on topic sightly, how do you as Christians respond to the observation that a disproportionate number of leaders within the various branches of the Christian faith(s) are paedophiles and this observation is depressingly predictable when one looks at any reasonably large sample of the church population?
I've seen no actual proof that a disproportionate number of Christian leaders are pedophiles.
If you were a pedo, where would you seek a future that would best enable you to get your freak on?
A place in the army or corporate america? No.
Congress (over here, page)? Sure, lots of freaks in politics.
Or maybe boy scout troop leader or clergy. I'd keep an eye on those two.
You're about to, some of it according to church authorities.
In furtherance of @Tuttle 's post, here's some interesting results of research into the background of those suffering institutional abuse.
Interestingly some studies indicate the nature of the institution doesn't seem to actually have a great deal of impact, nothing statistically significant, but there is a trend over time towards secular institutions. This makes sense if the religion isn't directly a factor as it reflects an overall trend towards secularism in public and third sector services (bear in mind the research was done in Germany). On the other hand there are studies which indicate individual Christians are far more likely to be sex offenders than average:
What is beyond doubt though is that (usually) males in positions of trust around children or other vulnerable members of society are more likely to be sexual predators, Teachers, priests, youth group leaders, etc, but religion isn't in an of itself a factor in terms of relative proportions.
The question of causality remains unanswered of course, we don't know whether there's something about those positions which increase the likelihood of predatory behaviour or whether those already inclined to offend are attracted to situations which present opportunities. My suspicion would be that both are true to an extent, but the key point here is that whilst leaders of Christian groups and churches aren't out of the ordinary for the distribution of people in such positions, individually they are statistically more likely than the population norm to be paedophiles.
Therefore paedophiles are, by and large, far more likely to be found in religious communities than secular ones.
However, that isn't the whole story. Historically Christian groups do differ in at least one other regard to secular ones, they have been very inclined to cover up or tolerate paedophilia when they discover it within their own ranks.
This makes sense when you see the church as being inherently a moral arbiter and authority within religious communities. Their credibility rests on having the moral high ground, of being the guiding lights of all that is right and proper, so they have a strong vested interest in not tarnishing that image publicly and for a long time deception made that possible, as did the blurred lines between religious and civil authorities.
That situation has improved but that doesn't undo the damage done both to the thousands of victims or the reputation of the church.
Oh well, I gave you a balanced overview of the evidence, you gave me a disagree.
@Dayton3 doesn't know what a manufacturing plant is. How the fuck is he going to understand all of that? Perhaps you can translate it into simian grunts for him?
I spent quite a while editing it to be as simple as I could without diluting anything or missing any nuance. Any simpler and the point would have been lost and I'd end up having to spend half a dozen posts filling in the resultant gaps.
I was counting on my suspicion that @Dayton3 is capable of actually being much more thoughtful than his popular portrayal.
Separate names with a comma.