Defund the Police

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Federal Farmer, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Soul Rebel

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    So what happens when you’re robbed? What happens when you need the police? The libertarian position was to privatize the police. You didn’t like that. So what’s the answer?
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  2. Tererun

    Tererun Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    Is this even an argument? You put an absurd position as your opponent which is a huge straw man, and then you expect other people to argue your insane idea. Police funding is not the issue. It is police behavior.


    Go back to your room until you can make a decent argument. While you are there do something about that mess because your mom is having fits.
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  3. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf Sir, I must protest! I am NOT a dairy man!

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    School's out for summer, huh?
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  4. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Disband the police.
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  5. K.

    K. Sober

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    Yeah, no, don't disband the police, and don't defund it. The problem is a malfunctioning police. A nonexistent one won't function any better, and the thugs in uniform beating people up will have even more opportunity to beat people up then. They might very well even make their own, new uniforms, in shades of brown and with arm bands and Trump's face on the holsters.
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  6. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Police budgets, like military budgets, are too high. Cutting them so that they aren't all arming themselves like Robocop is part of the solution.

    Disbanding police forces is also an option. You can replace one force with another. That's what happened to the RUC after it was deemed unacceptable to a large part of the population.
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  7. Elwood

    Elwood I know what I'm about, son.

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    There have been many turning points in church history. But, one of the most important came when Rome fell in the west. That left a huge power vacuum in western Europe. The Church began to become the government in many of these areas because the Church was the only organization with the infrastructure to handle certain critical matters like schools and roads. When the Church starts acting like a government, you get all the problems of government in the church. Graft, corruption, etc. Fast forward a few millennia and well, here we are. As you are keenly aware.

    Thus, we need to be very careful when moving forward. Fix the problems, but if you leave a power vacuum, the result is not going to be good, much less ideal.
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  8. Tererun

    Tererun Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    How about instead of cutting them we use them in different ways to get better police officers? I am cool with not giving them anymore stupid toys.
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  9. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Improve social support programs, education and job building programs and you won't need so many police.

    And yes, privatised police forces (much like privatised prisons) are a terrible idea.
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  10. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Interview with a guy who basically wrote the book on defunding the police.
  11. Tererun

    Tererun Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    I will say one thing. When we were running paintball games we would not give our special padding to grown men. We actually purchased flexible chest and back protection to give to children and women. Evidently the nipples can be very sensitive to getting shot. I take their word on it. We knew if you gave the padding to the men they would be a problem because they would not go out. The pain of a hit would be what stopped most of them in their tracks. If you removed the pain there was a huge spike in cheating.

    I say this because as you give police more armor you have to realize their fear goes down. They realize they are less likely to be hurt and this will encourage them to act more harshly because they can. This is what happens when you armor up people. So you have to do some sort of training and administration of the police when using riot gear. They will feel empowered to use their gear on everyone because they have the power not to be harmed.

    I will agree that there is a reason the police do not fuck with a white guy with an assault rifle. In these p[olice brutality situations you do not see armed protesters being hurt because a heavily armed protester could harm the police through their armor. Even an accidental shot could get them.

    You need to have reliable people in authority. You cannot have these fuck ups and bullies because they abuse power. The police need to be the most regulated and restricted out there. If that means some people wont be cops because they cannot handle the restrictions and would not put themselves in that position, then good. Do not be a police officer because you are not good enough. Good decent paintball can make a great game. Shitty refs lead to problems and injuries. The police are pretty much society's refs. That should be a hard position to attain because of the regulations and difficulties involved. That may mean we have to accomodate that position with better pay and benefits. That also means the people who chose that open themselves up to a higher level of scrutiny and regulation.
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  12. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Difficult in the US though - there's already an issue that a cop can be fired in one state and simply get a job in another. All you might end up doing is shuffling the racists about. Unless you sack the whole lot and wait until you have replacements trained or vetted, but who polices in the meantime?
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  13. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Probably has Corona (of the ass)

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    Create an alternative force that operates at the same time. Gradually phase out the personnel and elements (or dismiss them where appropriate) and reorganize them under the management of the new force.
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  14. K.

    K. Sober

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    That makes sense.
  15. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    It could work - you'd need to ensure there was a clear distinction in uniform so any bad behaviour by the old guard doesn't tar the new lot.
  16. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    Or keep the police budget as it is - just pay the cops more and cut the spending on unnecessary equipment.
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  17. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    Demilitarize them, absolutely.
    Don't send them out during peaceful protests. They're not needed during peaceful protests. Both sides get tense, and something always happens. Save the cops for the night time riots. Leave the peaceful protesters alone.
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  18. Amaris

    Amaris Don't Turn Around

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    Coast Guard.
  19. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    nice in theory - but what happens when a peaceful protest suddenly turns violent? By the time the cops arrive it could be too late.
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  20. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Starfleet.
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  21. K.

    K. Sober

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    Illuminati.

    (Not sure about the rules, but I think I'm winning.)
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  22. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    I totally hope MSP actually goes ahead and disbands their PD. I'm stocking up on popcorn, because if they do it, shit's gonna get REAL interesting.

    Hey, you get the gub'mint you vote for, right?
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  23. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Studies have shown that if you stage riot police in the area, but out of sight of demonstrators events generally remain peaceful. If they do turn violent, then the riot police are close at hand. Additionally, if you close down places that sell food in the areas where a demonstration is scheduled to happen, the people who are legitimately there to protest will stay (since they usually come with their own food and water) while the ones who’re only interested in looting will leave when they get hungry.
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  24. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    staged out of sight? As soon as somebody sees the police staging area they can just call somebody (cell phones) in the protest group. That may piss them off enough to turn the protest violent with "the cops are ready to ambush us!" assumptions.
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  25. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Soul Rebel

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    Back on Ignore you go. You’re useless.
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  26. Jenee

    Jenee No Longer Affiliated With ABBA

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    A power vacuum now would not be filled by the church, rather corporations. My guess would be the parent corporation owned by the Koch brothers.
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  27. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    When you start reading in depth, most "defund the police" proposals are first and foremost about moving resources to prevention and making sure that "send in the cops" isn't our first response to everything. Most are not about saying "Okay, right now, disband every police force in the country."

    Granted, there probably are people saying that (and I'd bet that the majority of them are white college kids). And yes, that approach is a bad idea. Not all crime happens because of mental illness and economic deprivation; some of it happens because people are greedy assholes. (Bernie Madoff, anyone?) The guy who's beating his wife or raping his children may indeed need counseling, but he needs a cop to put him in jail first.

    But most of the proposals are a lot more nuanced than the tagline makes them sound.
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  28. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh, and like seeing a bunch of armored cops lining the planned protest route isn't going to make people think they're liable to get their ass beat. :rolleyes: Everyone going to a protest knows that riot police will be in the area, somewhere. If the riot cops aren't directly in the path the protestors are intending to take, then they're seen as less of a threat, and there's less chance that someone will escalate the situation into a riot. This was proven, believe it or not, by the US Army in Iraq.
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  29. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Soul Rebel

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    Maybe liberals should stop using stupid tag lines then. Same as believe all women.
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  30. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Thought you didn't follow social media? Except WF, of course.
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