Defund the Police

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by The Ghost of Crazy Horse, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  2. Jenee

    Jenee Ind. Jenee of Winterfell

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    This is the problem I have with terms like "cop killer" and having different punishments for people who kill/harm cops vs average citizens.

    Regardless of what Luthor Hall was doing, he was beaten by cops. If he wasn't undercover, if he was just an average citizens - even if he was engaged in a crime, he should not have been beaten like that.

    Placing higher prison terms or harsher judgements when the victim is a cop sends the wrong message. Cops are not more important than average citizens.
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  3. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Absolutely. Stuff like the below clearly shows some of the cops were out to inflict violence on protestors regardless of provocation (or why the need for anonymity?):



    And yet...

  4. Jenee

    Jenee Ind. Jenee of Winterfell

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    So, the only reason 1 person was vindicated was because that person was a cop.

    No one else gets any justice.

    And how many posters on here hit disagree when I posted that I do not like, nor want to know any cop on a personal level.
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  5. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Dare to be Stupid

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    Welcome to the opposition to hate crime laws. :)
  6. Jenee

    Jenee Ind. Jenee of Winterfell

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    Not necessarily. Hate crime laws do not place a higher value on the victim's life or possessions. The punishment, generally, isn't harsher than a similar crime perpetrated for other reasons. The purpose for additional punishment for a hate crime is to protect a community that does not have the ability to protect itself - not from crime but from society.

    If you look at the history of crimes perpetrated specifically against the black community within the US over the last 100 years, you'll notice that society tends to overlook crimes perpetrated against members of the black community. I know we've all been "enlightened" about the Greenwood, Oklahoma massacre in recent years. But, that is just one incident among many. Those things are not taught in public schools. It truly is disturbing the depth and breadth of crimes against the black community perpetrated by white supremacists just in the last 100 years.

    Sure, it's easy to dismiss it, roll your eyes, and "pfft" it away and that is why it's necessary to have hate crime laws. Because most white people do not care.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  7. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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  8. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  9. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    pathetic! No matter how "dangerous" your job can be (even though this time it turned out not to be for the cops at least) there's never an excuse for being a dick.
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  10. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    Hot mic moment? Regardless I don't see how they can wiggle out of this.
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  11. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Ah yes, there's the other problem I have with Washington outide of WSDOT's fugly Big Green Signs: the SPD :bailey:

    (Mind, the PPB ain't that much better :garamet:)
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  12. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Shadowrun set its dystopian cyberpunk future in Seattle for a reason.
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  13. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Port cities are always easy to make look dystopian.
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  14. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  15. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Some good news though in the last two days.

    NYC got rid of qualified immunity for it's police officers, I believe the first major metropolitan area to do so.

    CA ended cash bail

    And VA abolished the death penalty.

    These are all big wins.
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  16. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Captain or Sergeant?
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  17. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    CA did not end cash bail; the thread title is wrong. SCOCA just said that bail is excessive if the defendant can't afford it. Cash bail definitely still exists in the state. For poorer people it might be eliminated, but could just as likely be lowered. And there's a lot of room to lower it, as CA's bail amounts are 5x the national average.

    It also remains to be seen if the courts will allow NYC's ending of qualified immunity to stand, since it was a court-created doctrine in the first place.
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  18. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    Loved that game. I've still got all my books in the attic...along with Vampire: Masquerade, Mechwarrior, Top Secret, Twilight 2000, AD&D and probably a half dozen others.
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  19. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    Qualified immunity is a federal court doctrine that protects officers from suit in federal cases. It looks like New York state has adopted its own version under state law.

    Generally when we are talking about suing for civil rights violations, most attorneys opt to sue under federal law because they are incentivized to. If they win, they can claim not just a percentage of the verdict, but attorneys' fees in any amount deemed reasonable. And thus, a minor verdict like even $1,000 can result in an award of $100k plus in fees.

    The NY City Council could not get rid of qualified immunity at the federal or state law any more than it could unilaterally reject any federal or state law. What they apparently did was create a local statute that would allow people to sue under it where qualified immunity does not apply.

    https://reason.com/2021/03/26/new-york-city-ends-qualified-immunity-for-police-officers/

    I would imagine that trying to create this new right is going to create at least some friction as the courts will still have to sort out the length and breadth of the rights. Are the rights under NYC law supposed to have a higher level of protection than the rights under the U.S. Constitution, the NYS Constitution or other laws? The same? Lower?

    I guess we will find out.
  20. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  21. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  22. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

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    I can't see this one either.
  23. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    A Washington state PD department raised all kinds of money to treat a K-9 who'd been shot, only later did they reveal that the dog had been shot by Washington cops.
  24. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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  25. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

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    I can see it on my phone.
  26. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    This version is probably clearer:

    https://www.stltoday.com/news/local...cle_6fcacd9a-8cc3-5acc-9049-bd19cf30eb59.html

    It seems an interesting situation. St. Louis settled the civil case for $5 million, but the feds got shut out when it came to bringing criminal charges against officers who contested them. (Two officers pled guilty, it sounds like, to lying about the incident.)

    A lot of possibilities here IMO.

    The feds do not usually take cases that they then go on to mostly lose. So one way to look at the criminal verdict is as a sign that it's pretty hard to get convictions on cops. Or that this was a case where a mostly white jury might have made a difference. Or that it might just be that the feds literally did not have the goods here. Or that the pesky beyond a reasonable doubt thing. Or that St. Louis was too conservative or too quick to settle the case for $5 million.
  27. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Chief of Police testifies in the Floyd George case that Chauvin violated department policy by continuing to keep his knee on Floyd's neck after he was cuffed.

    Chauvin's lawyer asked him how long it's been since he personally arrested anyone. :jayzus:
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  28. GhostEcho

    GhostEcho Yojimbo

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    Ever play Traveller, the Sci-Fi RPG? That was the first RPG I was ever exposed to. Top Secret was second. Did you ever play or like the Marvel Superheroes one from TSR from the mid-late 80s? I loved that one too.

    I got re-interested in D&D recently. There's a website called DriveThruRPG where you can (legally) buy print-on-demand or PDF versions of virtually all the old D&D and AD&D stuff (and a host of other RPGs and materials from other publishers). It's all licensed and legit. I just got the AD&D 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide, Player's Handbook, and Monster Manual in good quality hardback and the 1991 "Rules Cyclopedia" (the Magnum Opus of the "Basic" D&D system) as well.
  29. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  30. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    I'm sure plenty of LEO's will quit both states over this. I'm trying to figure out if that's a good thing or a bad thing. :unsure:
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