Don't Be A Sucker.

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Diacanu, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    thinking about it still with a map in front of me... Canada has needed some redrawing for a while anyways, given the sparse populations of much of it.

    Maine would be a natural fit with the other Maritimes (which should be a single province anyway), while splitting off part of BC into AB in a straight line to Nevada would work both for density and socio-cultural leanings when those parts of WA/OR get added...
  2. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    The state is its people.
  3. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I know you didn't mean to post this one, but it's an accurate example of how the US is seen right now.
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  4. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    No, the state is the organizational district under the American system. Once again, for those who skipped basic civics in school, the people are represented proportionately in the House and the states are represented equally in the Senate. That balances large urban areas with small rural ones.
  5. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Listen here, Jack

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    Republicans already rigged the game by adding a bunch of ridiculously underpopulated conservative "states," so shut the fuck up forever about fixing it? I'm sure that's what he meant to say, anyway.

    Also Pluto would be three planets if only they voted Republican.
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  6. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    By "balance," of course, you mean "make some people's votes dramatically more powerful than their numbers warrant."

    It's worth noting that we don't "balance" our electorate in any other way. No other minority group gets structural advantages added so that they can outvote the majority despite being smaller in number. We don't grant extra voting power to religious or ethnic minorities. So why are rural voters special?
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  7. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    That's the theory of those systems, yet it seems like the Senate passes lots of things that organizational districts would have no interest in or be effected by.
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  8. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    [​IMG]
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  9. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    While I agree, it really is beside the point.

    Why the system was set up the way it is is irrelevant. 70% of the population isn’t going to take the 30% ruling them for too long no matter how many But, but, Federalism! Republic! Tyranny of the Majority!s some folks weakly offer up.

    The imbalance will just be too much. Especially when you consider the vindictive nihilism of the ruling minority towards the majority.
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  10. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Which totally won’t happen when the situation is reversed. :yes:
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  11. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Yeah it will be horrible. They’ll be vindictively forcing human rights, education, voting rights, environmental protections on those poor poor conservative areas.

    The wailing and gnashing of teeth will be heard from coast to coast. THE HUMANITY!!!!

    But seriously, what ‘progressives lashing out at cons’ vindictive policies do you think on are par with the lgbtq discrimination bills, self deportation, banning abortion, dismantling voting rights, etc that the right has so gleefully enacted whenever they could get away with it?

    Or is this just more FUD from you?
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  12. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Since you don't think 70% holding power over 30% is at all unsustainable, is that entirely on principle or a question of numbers?

    What if it was 97% to 3%? 99.7% to 0.3%? Would they all get a condescending "well you see all sides are equally bad and furthermore if things were reversed..." Or do you think those situations might not do well long term?
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  13. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Well let’s turn your question around. What percentage of the population do you want to disenfranchise? Are we good with 51% of the voters steamrolling the 49%? And are you assuming that you’re always going to be part of the 51%?
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  14. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Heck, let's play historical hypothetical.

    In response to "No taxation without representation!" the British parliament says fair enough and gives the American colonies one (1) representative.

    Would that have been fair and addressed the concerns? If not, why not?
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  15. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Not at all, democracy works as a pressure relief valve. If there is a majority support passionately in favour of a change then those changes can happen in a peaceful way. Sometimes that's for things I want, sometimes not.

    However if that valve is rigged to run one way most of the time pressure builds up and has to go somewhere. If it isn't able to get out through peaceful means then history shows it will inevitably find another path.
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  16. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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  17. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    He can't come to the phone right now. He's cleaning Ol' Betsy.
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  18. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Honestly, I still see California saying 'Fuck this' and inviting Oregon and Washington for the ride, and we'd be off to the races, probably dragging Nevada, Hawaii, and the Pacific Territories along for the ride (boy would China probably jizz at the thought). Not sure about Alaska, but they'd probably panic at the thought of seeing Russia from their house.
    Knowing how stubborn we are, we'd probably want to go our own way, though still be close pals with Canada. Could see a desire for strong(er) ties with Mexico, too.

    Going to your thought, however, with taking the UP, Maine, and Vermont... what did Minnesota do? It's the accent, isn't it. Has to be the accent. (Or is it the fact that Poodle was there at some point? :chris:)
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  19. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Honestly, I don't think that's a done deal. The pandemic is going to force a lot of re-evaluation of how our society operates, and it shows the ubiquity of work from home solutions. There will be a drive for more and more divestiture from big city pricing. It makes economic sense for one thing - without overhead in pricy urban areas, and being able to make salaries highly competitive for lower market employees, will definitely be attractive to shareholders and the bottom line.

    Based on current trends, but those trends are likely to be impacted by other factors. Hell, rent is down 20% in places like NYC and SF because of the pandemic impacting short term exodus. People aren't selling homes yet, but the option of having a higher standard of living while removing commuting entirely is going to impact this. Hell, Salesforce just shut down many of their regional hubs to go work from home full time.

    As to the politics, Biden is almost certainly a one termer due to his age, and after that we'll see a more aggressive progressive wing coming forward. We might not see a rebalace of the supreme court in the next few years, but I'll bet we do in the next generation. I'm fairly certain we'll see statehood for DC and Puerto Rico as well, thus evening out disparities in the Senate.

    It's possible the country fractures in the next 20 years, but my belief is it won't. There are structural ways to change the current imbalance without constitutional amendment.

    And let's face it - Trumperism is going to go the way of the Know Nothings. They will be a mocked pariah in 10 years - a foot note in history in 25.
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  20. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    You're probably right... Just I've spent time in Seattle and Portland and kinda liked them as cities.
    A few reasons for rejecting MN...Too many new provinces/population, redefining international boundaries, and of course we already have a Winnipeg.
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  21. We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse

    We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse Rey of sunshine

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    In fairness, he probably doesn't understand yet as I don't believe political science is covered until the senior year of high school.
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  22. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    don't you mean gives small rural (populations) an advantage/handicap? One man, one hundred times the electoral influence.

    I mean shit... democracy American style is like a beta version.
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  23. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    And what exactly is it you want to do with the Upper Peninsula, huh? :chris:
  24. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    You proceed from a false premise.
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  25. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Populate it with red maple leaves?
    I mean, Michigan as a whole should probably go to Canada, but the mitten's to leaded down with bad water :(
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  26. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    don't know, but I will have her home before midnite?
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