Girls will be girls

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by TheLonelySquire, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. TheLonelySquire

    TheLonelySquire Fresh Meat

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  2. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Name a trans gold medalist in a women's sport.

    *Plays the Final Jeopardy theme......forever*
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  3. matthunter

    matthunter Has the strength of 20 men... 20 BIG men

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    Sure, if we can stop letting you into human stuff and keep you among the other protozoa.
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  4. TheLonelySquire

    TheLonelySquire Fresh Meat

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    Thx Matt. At least you agree they shouldn't be competing with legitimate females. That's a start!
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  5. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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  6. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Should have stipulated "..and if your answer starts with 'Joe Rogan says...', you'll be executed".
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  7. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    Well, I mean he may have a point this time. Wouldn't someone born with male junk have certain advantages over someone born with female junk in certain athletic competitions and vice versa in others?
  8. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Like what?
    Cock wrestling?
    Is that even a thing?
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  9. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    To be honest my suspicion would be that there's not enough data yet to really say, but there'd be a significant difference based on the stage of transition.

    Someone who is at a pre hormone stage (ie simply living as a girl) would still have all of the physical advantages of a male, whereas the later stages would effectively eliminate those advantages once the hormone therapies took effect. Could even work against the trans athlete who has a male's frame but a female's musculature and body chemistry.

    Making this a discrimination case would seem to require that cis girls do not have an option that trans girls do, which is arguably untrue as they are more than welcome to make the transition in reverse if they so choose.

    The simple solution (although probably unlikely) would be simply to remove gender from sports selection and do so entirely on ability, but that would absolutely introduce an unfair advantage to cis males.
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  10. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    What about weightlifting? Before the contest even starts, men's barbells weigh eleven pounds more than women's barbells do. :shrug:
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  11. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    That's probably something worth reviewing anyway, regardless of questions about trans competitors.
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  12. Amaris

    Amaris Hopeful

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    In general? No.

    The easy to read version: https://theestablishment.co/no-fema...ave-unfair-advantages-14b8e249f93c/index.html

    The full of medical stuff version: https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/695

    The TL;DR version:
    No. Estrogen working on the body tempers what might be considered former advantages.
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  13. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    That's the scenario that Joe Rogan and South Park envision, but it hasn't happened yet, whereas, Rogan/Stone/Parker pretend it already has.
    They're not journalists, or scientists, they're comedians.
    But bigots hate real experts, so....
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  14. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Arguably turns them into disadvantages. A male skeleton is much larger on average than a female one, which must be moved around by muscles whose output is now limited by oestrogen.

    However, we are talking about high school sports, where many trans competitors might not yet have commenced hormones.
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  15. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    So you have to be on hormone therapy to be considered trans?
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  16. Amaris

    Amaris Hopeful

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    However, they will likely be on puberty blockers in order to prevent the advantages that comes with puberty. Thus, the advantage isn't there.
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  17. Amaris

    Amaris Hopeful

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    No, but if you're an adult and vying to be in the Olympics as your intended gender, then you're likely already on HRT.
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  18. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    In partial defence of Rogan he's also someone who runs a sporting body which has already faced this particular question and opted to allow trans athletes to compete as their chosen gender.

    He came under a lot of criticism for that when a competitor received a broken skull and (AFAIK) stood by the decision, so what is discussed on his podcast should be taken in the context of his real world choices.
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  19. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    But what if they aren't?
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  20. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Good point, I hadn't considered that.
  21. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    But what if they aren't?
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  22. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Then you've just identified a selection criteria?
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  23. Amaris

    Amaris Hopeful

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    Then you have to put them in a class where they can compete. Would you have a bantam weight take on a heavyweight?
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  24. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Originally MMA had no weight classes anyway.

    Worth having that as context.
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  25. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    wait.....:unsure:.....if X amount added is...:unsure: but both started with....Y stays the same carry the tangent....damn that metric system! :shakefist:
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  26. Amaris

    Amaris Hopeful

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    Another good point.

    This message brought to you by "Mike Tyson's Punchout!"
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  27. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    and original MMA (using the early UFC events as an example) sucked because there were no weight classes. Granted the smallest guys were around 170# or so. But it was a fucking freak show. Physics matter, that's why boxing & MMA have weight classes. Without them pitting a bantam weight (135# max weight) against a heavy weight (265# max weight) would literally send the bantam weights to the hospital/grave yard. It would be tragic & brutal and banned after the first event, and rightly so. Weight classes bring out the very best in the competitors so the fights are about as evenly matched as they can be.
  28. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne The Gay Collective(tm) Formerly Important

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    I dunno, that trans boy wrestler in Texas was beating the cis boys' asses until they forced him to wrestle with the girls. :shrug:
  29. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    I remember reading about a trans boy wanting to wrestle with cis boys, but I don't remember him beating their asses, let alone that being the reason he wasn't allowed to.
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  30. GhostEcho

    GhostEcho Christian Conservative (Republican)

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    As far as I can tell, Mack Begg never wrestled male opponents.