Gun/ammo ripoff? I have questions

Discussion in 'Camp Wordforge' started by Nova, Jul 24, 2021.

  1. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    So my son has been saving to buy his first gun for ages and on Saturday we went to a local hole-in-the-wall gun shop and after extensive browsing he made a somewhat impulse buy on a pistol and a box of ammo.

    This is what we got
    A M1911 A1/A2 that has a book from Rock Island Armory and he was told it was stock, except for the grips - we think that was a lie, more on that in a moment. He got a couple of clips and a case.

    Also, a box of 45 cal 230 gram FMJ bullets. (50 count)

    This is the actual weapon

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Thing is, he can't find ANY stock M1911 for sale or depicted online that looks like this one in every detail (grips aside)

    We've come to the conclusion that it's likely a "kit-bash" using components of as many as 3 different guns.

    You guys who know what you are looking at - do you concur?

    Beyond that, the guy charged him $725 for the gun and $40 for the ammo and while looking for a match, he discovered that he seems to have paid as much as $150-$200 for it (if it had actually been stock)

    True?
    If so, does being a mash-up make it more valuable, less, or irrelevant?

    Also, unless he learns enough to pacify him that he didn't get fucked, he's now in a position that he basically hates the gun on principle as a proxy for hating the guy who ripped him off...but there seems to be limited options for re-selling it without getting fucked again by settling for pawn shop prices. It doesn't even seem to be easy to sell the ammo "in the daylight" even though apparently people are crying for ammo.

    Suggestions?
    Comments?
  2. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, assuming the gun can safely fire and he’s got ammo, I really can’t see the problem in getting a full refund. I mean, you just go to the store, express your displeasure, wave the gun around and maybe fire a couple of rounds in the direction of the clerk if he won’t give you your money back. :shrug:
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  3. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    He just found an image that is described as a M1911 A1 FS Tach 45 ACP FDE5 that other than certain coloration looks like it might be the same gun

    Like this
    [​IMG]

    So...?

    The seem to be around $500 ...?
  4. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    Heh.

    For the record I did call and ask about a straight refund and he walked right up to the edge of "hell no"
  5. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    What makes you think it’s a “kitbash” other than the different finish on the slide and frame? Two-tone finishes aren’t all that uncommon.

    https://www.impactguns.com/Semi-Aut...45ACP-5-Two-Tone-8-Round-4806015514473-51447/

    https://v1tactical.com/product/rock-island-armory-m1911-a1-tactical-45-acp-3/

    It’s possible that even a brand new pistol will have different serial numbers on the slide and frame because the components were assembled that way at the factory. He probably overpaid, but that’s not uncommon. Especially at a small town gun store and especially during these times when firearms are in high demand.

    I personally would’ve picked another manufacturer, but lots of people buy Rock Island because they’re typically pretty inexpensive and can serve as a “base” pistol for customization with high-quality aftermarket parts. Many competition handguns are built around Rock Island frames.

    Since the grips are apparently aftermarket, I’m assuming the weapon is used and not brand new? If so, he definitely overpaid. For future reference, it’s often possible to haggle over the price of used guns but probably not so much right now due to the demand.


    And despite the American-sounding name, that weapon was manufactured in the Philippines.
  6. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    Also, he didn’t overpay for the ammo. Especially in these times. In the past 18 months I’ve seen range ammo like that (as opposed to higher quality defensive ammunition) go for $1 a round or higher.

    .45ACP isn’t cheap even in normal times, which is one of the reasons I have only one pistol in that caliber but several in 9mm.
  7. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    We don't really know that it's a mash-up, maybe it just has some after-market mods he doesn't recognize, maybe it's just a model like that last one I posted that he hadn't seen before and he's over-thinking it.

    I wasn't really thinking the ammo was overpriced, he is just... emotional ...and having a hard time accepting that maybe he got ripped off and so is being impulsive about maybe just getting rid of all of it and starting over. Personally, I hope it passes and he can try his luck at a gun show in the fall or something.

    But it seemed like this was a good place to seek more info.
  8. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    He overpaid but I wouldn't say he got ripped off. Pandemic pricing has driven up the cost of most things gun-related, especially buying in person from a small town gun store.

    Next time I suggest buying online and having it shipped to a local dealer for the transfer/background check. Prices are almost always cheaper, even including whatever the local charges to do the transfer. I haven't bought a gun in person since 2008.
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  9. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Rule #1 of Buying and Selling guns: You never sell guns

    Rule #2: Guns and ammo are expensive

    Rule #3: If you like the way it shoots, it’s reliable, you like carrying it, etc it is a good gun and a good purchase

    In all seriousness I would hold on to it. The 1911 is heavily customizable. Rock Island frames, slides and barrels are all decent to better than decent it’s the guts that can be iffy. Just learn the weapon and replace/upgrade the guts as needed/wanted.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  10. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    :yes:

    I’ve seen a lot of Kimbers in the two-tones of Nova’s pistol.

    And my STI Spartan is Rock Island frame, slide and barrel with STI guts and hand assembled, tested, etc in Texas.
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  11. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    If your kid just wanted a shooter, then if it's accurate and reliable, it's a good gun. The Wilson Combat magazines are top notch. The gun its self looks used with some possible after market modifications...like the ambidextrous active safety and maybe the mainspring housing, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. People do that all the time with 1911s. I concur that you probably overpaid, but maybe not by all THAT much...it doesn't mean it isn't worth keeping.
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  12. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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  13. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    It's actually fairly common on newer guns. It's for pushing the slide back slightly to make sure a round is chambered without blocking the view with your hand. It's also kind of silly, but nobody bothered to ask me.
  14. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Oh, I know what forward slide serrations are for (I've been in the shooting sports a while, you know). What I found curious is that I couldn't find a model of that gun that had them.
  15. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Hey, Paladin's alive!!
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  16. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    If you can call it that. :bergman: :ramen:
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  17. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    malgif.gif
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  18. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Mystery solved(?)

    You can buy a slide from Rock Island that has the forward serrations. The previous owner must've bought one and changed it out.
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  19. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    I still think it's silly.
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  20. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I don't necessarily disagree. For me, they're not any real benefit, but I'm not offended by their presence.

    I suppose they make the gun a little lighter. :diacanu:
  21. TheBurgerKing

    TheBurgerKing The Monarch of Flavor

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    It's a citadel m1911 government, the forward serrations are a standard option, though every picture I've seen of them the slide has the citadel logo carved into it.

    https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/222965

    $700+ for a Rock Island is high and rock island does have other 1911's with that grip type. I couldn't tell you if it's been toyed with without seeing some of the internals, like the extractor.
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  22. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    Appreciate the input, all.

    Lowers the anxiety (on his part) a good bit to not get any "yeah, you fucked it up" takes.
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  23. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    This POS looking banged up 1911 with those ridiculous looking grips is 70 years old and is the most reliable and accurate hand gun I own. As such, it's my primary carry.

    IMG_1143.JPG
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  24. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Needs forward slide serrations.



    :nyer:
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  25. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    On the one hand it needs a beavertail grip safety, an ambi manual safety, proper grips, and a nice refinishing job. But on the other hand, it ain't broke, so why try to fix it?
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  26. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    Years ago a friend gifted me some Pachmayr finger-grove grips for my 1911A1 and at first I though they were cool, but I had to get rid of them because unlike Elwood, my hands are too big to use them. The grooves don't fit my paws.

    I replaced them with some non-grooved wrap-around Pachmayrs which work like a charm. :yes:
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  27. Elwood

    Elwood I know what I'm about, son.

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    I only carried Pachmayr's for 20+ years. :nyer:

    I think it's safe to say that I'm the 1911 guy around these parts. If it were 2018, I'd say your son paid about $200-250 to much for the gun. But, COVID and 2020 Election hysteria have driven everything through the roof. I'm not even in the market for anything right now. It's just stupid.

    If it functions flawlessly and he can shoot it well, tell him to keep it. Down the road, he can take it to a competent gun smith and have it fitted and worked. It'll turn a standard low-level 1911 into a truly fine custom piece. To put it another way, the bones are good enough, but the organs will need to be replaced to turn it into something worth passing down to children and grandchildren.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021