gun control part 1: fuck yeah

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by steve2^4, Apr 8, 2021 at 11:58 AM.

  1. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    1) ghost guns (gun kits). I'm lookin' at you Forbin:
    2) Arm Braces. meh. Seems any DIYer could make their own.
    3) Red Flag guidance:
    4) Finally an ATF head:
    source
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  2. We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse

    We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse Probably a Dual

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    Biden should just sign an executive order that requires weekly free-for all gun battles in Michigan Stadium (good location because it's the largest stadium in the country AND it's a state full of gun wackaloons). The stadium can hold 107,000 and all spectators must sign a waiver that says too fucking bad if you're killed by a stray bullet.

    Eventually, all the gun strokers will be killed, so hopefully by the next presidential term, America can have a rational discussion about the second amendment.
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  3. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    My reaction when I first heard about pistol “braces” a few years ago was the same as when I heard about bump stocks: how were those legal in the first place?
    Both things seem like something the ATF would’ve banned or regulated years ago.

    I’ve always hated “pistols” chambered for rifle-caliber rounds.
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  4. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Everyone wants to be Hellboy.
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  5. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    “Gun violence in this country is an epidemic, and it’s an international embarrassment,” Biden said in the White House Rose Garden. “The idea that we have so many people dying every single day from gun violence in America is a blemish on our character as nation.”

    “They’ve offered plenty of thoughts and prayers, members of Congress, but they’ve passed not a single new federal law to reduce gun violence,” Biden said. “Enough prayers. Time for some action.”

    Source: wapo
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  6. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    my thoughts on ghost guns and pistol braces:

    ghost guns: as a percentage of the total gun homicides how many involve ghost guns? I honestly don't know (maybe some concerned wordforge member can tell me) but think about this: if a "mass killer" is planning on going ape shit they realize that their killing spree will probably end from cops shooting them dead, or they will take their own life, or worst case go to prison for a long time or even get executed depending on what state they committed the shooting in.
    My point being the vast majority of these killers don't really care if somebody can trace the gun to them. They really have bigger things to worry about because...ya know...they are going to kill a bunch of people. They are going to get into the most trouble you can ever get into. Banning ghost guns is like pissing on a forest fire.

    pistol braces: yes a pistol brace was just used in a recent mass killing, but again of the total gun homicides how many involve pistol braces? I guarantee pistol braces will have almost zero effect on inner-city gun homicides and here is why. The vast majority of gang-banging/dope slinging criminals aren't concerned about maximum accuracy or precision shooting. They tend to spray bullets, as evidenced by the children & other innocent bystanders shot in many of these shootings. Granted many of these shootings might not meet the threshold of "mass shootings" but 500+ homicide victims annually in a single city
    is a pretty big deal IMHO. Again, more pissing on a forest fire.

    My point is this: why is Biden grabbing the low hanging fruit of gun control? It's just like Trump and "bump stocks". :no: Yes, bump stocks & pistol braces did increase lethality on one or a few occasions
    but they are a tiny fraction of total gun homicides. Do both presidents actually believe that the citizens of America can't do basic math/percentages or are too lazy to do a little research? :shrug:
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  7. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Huh.

    So we shouldn’t do anything about ghost guns because they aren’t really useful for mass shootings but just regular gun crime.

    And we shouldn’t do anything about braces because they are only really useful for mass shootings not regular gun crime.

    Interesting.
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  8. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    Probably because real solutions have to involve legislation, and the Republicans will do everything they can to prevent that legislation from ever happening. There is only so much you can (or should) do with executive orders.

    But does that mean you shouldn't do anything because you can't do much?
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021 at 10:54 AM
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  9. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Because it's low hanging fruit.

    Real solutions lie with congress.
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  10. TheBurgerKing

    TheBurgerKing The Monarch of Flavor

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    "Ghost guns" are aluminum or plastic/polymer billets that require precision milling to turn into a "firearm" as defined by the BATFE. 1. It's not an easy thing to do and get a workable product from. 2. It's really no different than any home built firearm, which has been legal since forever.

    Arm braces are great tools for the disabled. My father lost a lot of function in his right arm from an accident involving broken glass and his braced pistol has been a great help to him. That said, he classification of SBR's in the NFA has always been a load of bullshit.

    Red flag laws have always been a violation of due process. It's a legislation that assumes guilt before proof, and you KNOW it will be used as an excuse for police to Breonna Taylor people.

    David Chipman has no place running the ATF. He's a slimy anti-gun zealot with a history of lying about thing to push his agenda. No, the branch-dividians didn't shoot down a pair of helicopters with a barrett.
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  11. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    I build model airplanes. Guns I buy legally, complete. I occasionally trick them out with accessories, but the core part with the serial number is purchased legally. :shrug:

    Like Shooter, I wondered how stabilizers ever were legalized. But it's still just an accessory. Take the stock off an AR with a short barrel, which has been a thing for a while, and it's almost the same thing. I think stabilizers just came out recently to help, ya know, stabilize the rig.

    Red flag laws for ANY application worry me for the potential for abuse. But all those crazies who were "being watched" up to the point the cracked and shot people, yeah, maybe "being watched" needed to be something more proactive. We'll see.

    The new ATF head seems crazier than anyone he may have been hired to go after!
  12. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    Also, again, isn't Biden the guy who said only a tyrant would rule via lots of executive orders?
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  13. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    • The kit includes every part needed to make a “glock” type handgun.
    • The “unfinished” frame is packaged inside of the “jig,” which functions to provide a pattern for drilling holes to make it a finished frame.
    • All that is needed is a hand drill or drill press, although the drill bits are provided for ease.
    • The process of converting these parts into a ghost gun involves just a few steps and can be completed without any specialized skills.
    source
  14. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    real solutions lie with congress.
  15. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Do you guys care to list David Chipman's crazy zealotry?

    Here I'll help:
    Chipman has advocated for the federal government to strike a balance that allows law-abiding citizens to own guns for self-defense, hunting and sport while also enabling law enforcement to prevent gun violence.

    In a 2019 hearing before the House Judiciary Committee following mass shootings in Dayton, Ohio, and El Paso, Texas, Chipman described that balance as one between "the rights of individuals and the rights of all Americans, and a human right not to get shot."

    "Our nation's current gun violence crisis has made two things very clear: one, it is far too easy for violent people to get their hands on violent weapons," he said. "Two, the American people overwhelmingly want Congress to act now to make their communities safer."

    He added that although all weapons can be dangerous in "the wrong hands," certain firearms are particularly lethal and should be more strictly regulated.​

    source
  16. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Red flag laws are dangerous. Inevitably lead to abuse. You wind up with shit like Senator Ted Kennedy being refused boarding on an airliner because the name "Ted Kennedy" wound up on a no-fly list.

    So in practice, what would happen is this:
    "Police! Come get Fred! He's got guns!"
    Police: "Fred, you are being taken in to custody because you have guns."
    Fred: "They're nonfunctional display copies made of rubber."
    Police: "You are now a felon with a police record. Sorry."

    Meanwhile, two houses down from Fred's place, Irving is building real live bombs to plant at an upcoming concert but because he smiles and waves at the neighbors, he's all good. Red flag laws are doxxing made official.
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  17. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Finally, the Justice Department will also publish model “red flag” legislation for states. The measure would allow police officers and family members to petition a court to temporarily remove firearms from people who may present a danger to themselves or others. While Mr. Biden cannot pass national red flag legislation without Congress, officials said the goal of the guidance was to make it easier for states that want to adopt it to do so now. The department also plans to release a comprehensive report on firearms trafficking, which it has not done since 2000.
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    As I understand federal law, that would be manufacturing a firearm, which is a felony without an FFL.
  19. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Debate it with the bk.
  20. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

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    FTFY.
  21. Jenee

    Jenee Ind. Jenee of Winterfell

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  22. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    LOL nope. All you'll get is a bunch of states (likely Southern) not really accomplishing shit all and then a lot of cross-state gun smuggling that the ATF could solve but NOOOO the potential ATF boss is too controversial (read: the gun-happy states don't like him).

    If you left everything up to the states, black folk would still be drinking out of separate fountains (or worse) in parts of the US. Women would be forced to bear unwanted pregnan... oh, wait.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021 at 1:57 PM
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  23. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    David Chipman claimed that the Waco Texas Branch Davidians shot down two Texas National Guard helicopters. Just sayin'
  24. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    Oh from the political leverage standpoint banning ghost guns (for example) are the perfect low-hanging fruit for Biden. His fan base can rightly claim "well at least he's doing SOMETHING about gun violence" but it's not even up to the level of pissing on a forest fire, it's just a few drops from that last second shake before you zip up. Semi-auto AR style rifles are only a fraction of the total gun homicides, and "ghost guns" are just a fraction of that fraction.

    And factor in there won't be much push-back from too many legal gun owners because good guys can just go down to the gun store, pass the background check , and now they have an AR ready-to-shoot. Their right to bear (legal) arms has not been impeded.

    So Biden & the Democrats get their victory (such as it is) so they can feel good about themselves, but on the other hand lawful gun owners might start really paying attention and will be even more likely to push back against/resist gun control efforts under the "gave them an inch and now they'll take a mile" philosophy so when Biden attempts a large scale New Jersey style large capacity magazine ban they will indeed go ape-mother-fucking-shit and rightly so.

    Bottom line if gun homicides are such a health crisis or whatever why don't we just stop letting violent criminals out of prison to repeat their crimes (which often involve guns) over & over? :shrug:
    In other words if we can't get the guns off the inner-city streets (where the gun homicide rate is through the roof compared to America as a whole) maybe we can keep the inner city criminals behind bars when we catch them? Just a theory, but I don't run the show obviously.
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  25. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Citation please.

    Here it is. https://www.newsweek.com/what-david-chipman-joe-bidens-atf-nominee-allegedly-said-about-waco-1582231

    Needs corroboration, but it's troubling.
  26. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

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    https://www.newsweek.com/what-david-chipman-joe-bidens-atf-nominee-allegedly-said-about-waco-1582231
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  27. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    We found it at about the same time.

    Not sure it demonstrates crazy as much as competency.
  28. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    competency more than anything, for being too lazy to check out the facts - to get the real scoop, etc. Granted hooting down a helicopter with a .50 cal is very possible (if not probable unless you really train for it) but two helicopters being shot down would be a pretty big deal and hard to keep "hush hush".

    Speaking of holy-fuck dumb as a bag o' hammers incompetence concerning guns, check out this clown's advice! :facepalm: Jesus this is a guy we need to invoke the "red flag" laws for, because he's too mentally unstable to have a gun. Glad he isn't my neighbor!

    Biden Shotgun Video: Vice President Offers Self-Defense Advice | The New York Times - YouTube

    And this from an interview with Field & Stream:

    "Well, the way in which we measure it is—I think most scholars would say—is that as long as you have a weapon sufficient to be able to provide your self-defense,” Biden said. “I did one of these town-hall meetings on the Internet and one guy said, “Well, what happens when the end days come? What happens when there’s the earthquake? I live in California, and I have to protect myself.” I said, “Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15, because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door.:facepalm: Most people can handle a shotgun a hell of a lot better than they can a semiautomatic weapon in terms of both their aim and in terms of their ability to deter people coming. We can argue whether that’s true or not, but it is no argument that, for example, a shotgun could do the same job of protecting you. Now, granted, you can come back and say, “Well, a machine gun could do a better job of protecting me.” No one’s arguing we should make machine guns legal." - same ass clown from the video

    BTW for those of you unfamiliar with weapons an AR-15 has almost ZERO recoil (unlike a shotgun in a typical caliber like 12 gauge) and is very easy to use & shoot accurately & fast.
  29. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Mmmm.

    If you want to scare someone away. Firing a shotgun in the air should do as good as an ar-15.

    If you want to kill someone the ar-15 would be better.

    Isn't self defense the purpose?
  30. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    you're kidding, right? Ya gotta be, no way you couldn't understand why firing guns into the air is a bad idea. And if you can't wrap your mind around why it's bad to just shoot through a door, you are beyond all hope. :facepalm: