Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Man Afraid of his Shoes, Mar 25, 2016.
Tax credits. There was a story on NPR about this a couple of days ago.
which is ironic given where McCory made his political career.
This is the most rational argument I've heard against Char/Meck's law. And it's not so much about bathrooms as about locker rooms or public showers. If the law allows me to walk into a woman's locker room at a public pool and watch girls shower as long as I say I identify as female, then the law was poorly written IMHO and should be re-written and/or clarified. What the state did, on the other hand, was overrule an entire local anti-discrimination law of which the whole bathroom thing was only a minor part.
Which is just propagation of their bullshit myth and you should know better. There are 225 cities and 13 states with trans-equality policies, plus a great majority of major high-traffic retailers.
And that creates a massive sample size of data. That data tells us that:
1. there's no documented case of a trans person sexually assaulting another person of any age in a public restroom, locker room, or shower.
2. The instances of men assuming a false pretense of being female or trans to gain access does happen, VERY VERY rarely but doesn't happen more often after such policies are enacted than they did before, nor do the happen more often where such policies exist than in places where they do not.
In short, it's crystal clear these policies do not enable such pervs, because they do what they want (and get arrested for it) with or without them. Unless, of course, the Tony Perkins crowd keeps insisting that these policies are a free pass and some are gullible enough to believe it. But that would be on the Pharisee, not on the law.
The genital segregation thing is more bullshit. Many places in the world don't segregate thus and they are not thereby dens of sexual assault and perversion. Such restrooms exist even in the U.S. and you never hear of anyone being attacked in one of them. Truth is, they are as much a vestige of patriarchy as much as anything. More about the synergy between "men are superior" and "women are delicate flowers who need protection" as about religion. But one of the flaws of religion is deifying tradition, so once a thing is a cultural tradition then somehow it morphs into a moral imperative because God said.
I've heard it elsewhere, and I saw an interview with a number of officials from NC who supported the bill and touted the religious implications of it, but here's an article from last month that outlined McCrory's plans going forward: http://www.worldmag.com/2016/02/north_carolina_lawmakers_vow_to_kill_charlotte_anti_bias_bill
The Charlotte Observer noted its relation to the "Religious Freedom" law Indiana passed last year: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article67845317.html
There is also a much more reasonable pay scale for actors. Perhaps it actually has become too low, but acting is tough to get into without a lot of effort and some luck. SAG is very restrictive on non-mainstream upstarts. There are a number of online shows who are hiring today but have not gone mainstream, and you cannot do both SAG work and continue with a non-SAG internet upstart. In Atlanta you can actually get mainstream and internet business. It is beginning to become a thing. In certain areas it is a thing like with voice acting work. You can really get blackballed by participating in independent VA work.
Atlanta does pitch for production with tax credits. Video editing and CG professionals also have a big business hub in Atlanta because of their push to get entertainment dollars. Atlanta is also a huge east coast convention town. Dragoncon, despite sucking ass IMO, is a huge profit generator being around 70-80 thousand attendees per year. They have two massive Anime cons and are thinking about a winter con. I am sure they have sports cons there around the baseball hall of fame there. That area is fucking insane and also houses their stadium and CNN headquarters around a city area made for conventions with huge parks and city attractions. I have to say that area is also clean compared to many stadium areas.
But the policy is that such people can't get arrested, because what they're doing isn't wrong. So me and @oldfella1962 and a bunch of other suddenly transgender old guys will be heading to the co-ed showers. I'm bringing the beer. We can't get in trouble for it, and it's just like a bank giving out free vault samples, but in this case for the spank bank. Since they can't stop us, which would be gender discrimination, we'll probably just bring out own folding chairs with beer holders in the arms and completely take over the women's locker room. Maybe the women will notice we just took over their private space so we could stare at their panties, and maybe they'll try to form some kind of private club that allows bathroom discrimination, but we'd try to nip that in the bud by calling them bigots and sexists.
Here is the deal, it doesn't do that. being TG does not mean you just say something, you have to live it. If you tried to do such a thing they would charge you with a crime and you would have to show you were transitioning everywhere. Yes, you would have to live and act as a female in order to do that. Though I am not much for psychologists, you do need to go to a person familiar with trans issues to be diagnosed as trans. This is not something you just say you are and you get to walk into that gender's bathroom and changing room.
You are lying, and the policies do differentiate between you and a trans person. Yes you would be arrested for trying to get into the ladies room just for wearing a dress, because being trans female is not just about wearing a dress. You are a liar @gturner and your claims are blatantly false. Anyone who bvelieves you are speaking the truth in this instance should check themselves because you are agreeing with Gturner and it is most likely you are wrong when you do that. He is very rarely accidentally correct. That is not a good person to rely on. Even @Daytoŋ3 knows better than to rely on gturner's word.
Lordy it was just a joke! You know because of the (at least partially true) belief that gay men generally take care of their bodies and try to remain attractive, and dress well. I know a few gays and none of them are big beer belly slobs. Your mileage may vary.
First, ugh. You're smarter than this.
Second, the law as it is now still gives you cover to walk in to the girls locker room, so long as you claim you're an F2M transman. If you're a hypothetical male pervert determined to watch women shower, is telling a different lie going to stop you?
This law makes no one safer, but it does make a lot of trans folk much less safe.
I remember when NC was about as progressive as it got for a Deep South state.
No you don't.
Because NC is Old South, not Deep South.
Bullshit on it's face. Anyone with a room temperature or better IQ can suss this out. Every instance in which it has ever been attempted - in places with and without trans friendly laws - the perp has been removed and arrested.
PLEASE go for it - and let me know how that works out for you. Maybe a Blue Room thread with the mug shots?
Key words being "Anyone with a room temperature or better IQ..."
This is gturner we're talking about.
Yeah, except that's not at all what the law did, it's what the Traditionalist Pharisee fear-mongers lied in claiming that it did.
Laws like this exist in 225 cities across the country - some for way over a decade, and 17 states - in Minnesota since 1993! - and there's never been a single instance where such a thing happened, or such a claim was successfully used as a defense against an accusation. No one interprets the law that way. But because the law doesn't take on the impossible task of defining a minimum level of femininity/masculinity (which would inevitably exclude some non-trans woman/man in the process) the Pharisees try to claim that Chuck Norris could pull up a chair in the ladies showers and the law would protect him.
For example, Atlanta has had the same policy, explicitly, since 2000, and there's been exactly zero cases of the negative unintended consistences often predicted. And they don't define specifically what is and is not indicative of a cross-sex gender identity. If you try it, get arrested, and expect to cite the ordinance in your defense, you'd better be prepared to prove in court your claim is genuine and if one is sincerely trans, that's not difficult to do.
for anyone who wishes to reference, here's a list of cities with similar NDOs that include gender identity
As the defendant, you don't have to prove your innocence, the prosecutor has to prove your guilt. Now exactly how are they going to do that given that Bruce Jenner came out as a woman?
Why don't you try it and let us know how you get on?
I hear they love sex offenders in prison...
Hell. Women in public bathrooms are just nasty. Thank God I got out of retail so I don't have to deal with the bathrooms. Men's bathrooms can be disgusting at times. Women's bathrooms can look like a slaughter house on the ninth level of hell.
In fact that's a good reason to keep the bathrooms separate!
their burden is to prove you were in there, YOUR burden is to prove you had a right to be.
I posted this to the Lt. Governor's Facebook page, as if it will ever be considered - the political cost would be too pricy for him.
Mr. Forest, a you aware that you and your colleges (including the governor) just legally required that the man in this photograph use the women's restroom, locker room, and etc in the facilities covered by your legislation? Was it your goal to create a situation in which the women you claim to be protected cannot discern visually between the person pictured on the right - born with a vagina and an "F" on the birth certificate and still in that condition - and a male predator who could claim falsely to be thus?
In short, did you collectively take the time to consider all the possible unintended consequences of your actions? The time to think through the choices you faced based not just on fear and animus and false claims but based on actual, factual, real world information?
It certainly doesn't appear that you did. One of the people in the photograph has a penis. It's not the one that 99% of the population would assume when they see them walking through the restroom door.
Major, major win. Perfect. Thank you.
(Except for the spelling. The spelling is atrocious. Get a spellchecker, girl.)
this one was on the governor's page, and also Franklin Graham's, since neither allow photographs in ther comments I couldn't use that image:
it is not a myth that NC government flat out denied in aw the reality that a trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man. Even though you were not so arrogant as to impose this policy on every single facility, you made it the official policy of the state that over 300,000 residents of your state are illegitimate under the law.
That's before we consider preventing local governments the liberty to rule otherwise.
You created a legal situation in which the message of the state is that the residents may confidently disrespect, disown, and shun trans people because the state says it's okay. These people can be forced into unemployment, and homelessness (a financial burden on your state, might I add) without recourse. They can be turned away from medical care and simple retail business with equal abandon because the State Government has communicated the message that these 300,000+ residents of the state are unworthy of ANYONE'S respect.
Moreover you SPECIFICALLY communicated to the student population of your state, as well as educational staff, that Trans students are "other" and should be segregated as potentially dangerous and unworthy of their respect and compassion.
It is EXACTLY this sort of stigmatization that robs trans people of their right to all the things that fall under "the pursuit of happiness" and drives them to self destructive behavior.
You, sir, and your enablers in the GA will have actual, not metaphorical, blood on your hands as a result of this action. For you, it's a matter of political advantage (the irony of you calling out Roberts because you think she was carrying out the agenda of out of state actors when any fool could see the fingerprints of groups like FRC on your actions is massive), to non-trans residents of NC who, due to Traditionalist indoctrination and mis-information - deliberate lies - it is a matter of fear - fear of a non-existent threat - and discomfort.
But to trans people this is a matter of of very life, and whether or not we can believe it is even worth living in a world of people who hate us. Wash your hands a lot governor. The blood won't come off.
I think of myself as a woman sometimes. Therefore I had a right to be. How can the government prove otherwise? Would anyone have believed Bruce Jenner, winner of the men's decathlon?
So now you've set it up so the government has to prove who is and who isn't transgendered. I wonder what kind of tests they'll administer? Perhaps two weeks in a clinic for a mental evaluation?
John Castle would love that place.
Why do you think a jury of your peers would find you any more believable than people here do?
And how do you remove "reasonable doubt" about a person's gender identity, which they probably kept buried deeper than Bruce Jenner ever did? A prosecutor isn't even going to want to waste a court's time with such a case. The jury would be happy to throw a pervert in the slammer, but being a transgendered pervert who goes into women's locker rooms isn't illegal, it's what the law is protecting.
Georgia Gov vetoes their bill:
I wonder how much of his decision was based on pressure by large corporations? I don't like the influence corporations wield even if I agree with them.
Separate names with a comma.