If A President Declares A "State of Emergency"

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Tuckerfan, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Think maybe we should makes some changes to what he or she can do?
    Lots more at the link. Regardless of what you might think of the current President, the difficulty (or unwillingness, as evidenced by some things mentioned later on) that the other branches of government would have in stripping those powers from a President should be concerning.
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  2. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

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    I heard about this on my way home from work, dumb. Immigration may be a crisis that needs to be dealt with, but it’s not a national security issue or a state of emergency. If that were the case, then there’s no limit to presidential power and it sets a bad precedent.
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  3. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

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    Gee, it's almost like the power of the government should be limited or something. :diacanu:
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  4. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    Something that nobody disagrees with, so I'm not sure who you think you're scoring a point against here.
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  5. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

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  6. Tuttle

    Tuttle Khaaaaaaaaaaann !!!

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    The righties have been complaining about this for decades, not just potential overreach by the Executive branch in particular, but even more by the broader power transfer to administrative agencies (part of exec. branch) and how our legislature has neglected its duty and abrogated it's responsibility by e.g. broad grants of rule making authority.


    There will be a sweet irony if it takes the alarmist fearmongering epitomized by this Atlantic writer about Evil Donald to finally get Congress to do its friggin job for a change, and rein in Executive branch authority and agency overreach. Maybe even get lucky and e.g. pass immigration reform after thirty years of promises.

    That crazy author of the OP link must be living in some kind of static warp bubble where she's remained oblivious to realities like the ["Trump has long signaled his disdain for the concepts of democratic rule"] transfer of power of Nov 2018 election and all the other horror tales of worst fears that have been proven wrong but she insists on repeating as if stuck in a groove playing the songs of late 2016.
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  7. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    It is a national security issue. Control of borders always is.

    It's not a state of emergency however. Not yet. We would need like all of Mexico to try to cross at once. That would be an emergency than.
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  8. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

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    Care to explain how it’s a national security issue?
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  9. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Borders are always a national security issue. For every country on the planet. If you can't control your border you have no country.

    When Russians were flying their bombers up close to our borders we didn't say, "come on in...." to them. We fucking put up fighters and were ready to kill them if necessary. (They would do the same to us as we approached their border)

    Our failure to maintain a proper border has allowed hundreds, possibly thousands of OTM, to sneak into America from Mexico. OTM = Other than Mexican

    The border patrol has captured people crossing our border illegally from places such as Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Pakistan, Cuba, Brazil, Ecuador, China, Russia, Yemen, Albania, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. Border patrol has also found indications that some OTM people are linked with terrorism.
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  10. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    I admit that with trump eyeing national emergency procedures to get his wall I am a bit wary, the problem becomes how one can actually do this. There are two other branches of government which can review such a call. I would imagine that the judicial would step in and have to make a judgment which would either expand executive powers to levels they cannot check, or check the power.

    One has to remember the military of America is not necessarily loyal to one man, but rather the laws of the country. The president as a commander is merely an efficiency for military operations which could call for a singular quick decision. Still, those decisions could be stayed and are our generals going to comply with coup like orders from trump without hearing judicial review of his declaration?

    I don't think trump is making a great case for a national emergency that would hold. The reality is that even if the legislature and judicial backs trump in republican policy, neither branch is going to concede tyrannical powers to the executive. We may have a crisis of what happens, but you would have both the legislative and judicial branches saying no way, and I am pretty sure the generals will see that as being much more important without an actual invasion going on. I would be much more alarmed if there was actually an invading force at our borders because then the military command might see a need for immediate action of the commander, but they are not delusional like trump.

    This should be a sign that we should try to hammer out some better guidelines, but that won't happen because of the party split and Americans are rarely proactive.
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  11. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    This is true, but what is actually coming over our border is not an invading army. It is not even terrorists who are trying to disrupt things. It is a few thousand people with no weapons and their families with them. It is a far cry from even creating civil unrest.

    The only thing that trying this is going to do is actually alarm republicans about trump's intentions. That would lead to his impeachment as he could collapse the system with such craziness. One has to remember they have Pence in the background if trump starts endangering their rights. Trump becoming a dictator means that he can hit the republican party also. It would crash the economy and their wealth would be in jeopardy because he could seize it as a threat to his power.

    It is one thing to be a threat to the democrats and their money. It is a completely different issue to give trump the power to start taking republican money because he does a coup.
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  12. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    I didn't say it was an invading army. Or that America was being invaded.

    I simply pointed out that borders are always part of national security. For all countries.
  13. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    I stopped reading the article after "He sent thousands of active-duty soldiers to the southern border to terrorize a distant caravan of desperate Central American migrants...." :dayton:

    Really? Terrorize them? :facepalm: They put up fencing. The only "terrorizing" was from the border agents WHO FUCKING WORK THERE ANYWAY and deploy tear gas from time-to-time and have done so under the past few presidents as well. Fucking clueless biased hack writer......:jayzus:
  14. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    Hey now, if we got rid of all the hacks at once we would not have anyone to report the news on TV.
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  15. A Bangkok Atheist

    A Bangkok Atheist Don't believe his lies

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    By @Zombie's logic, individual EU countries no longer exist because they opened their borders to one another. :jayzus:
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  16. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Idiot.

    They can do that because they are allied with each other. They have treaties with each other. They are practically one country. They just don't want to admit it yet.

    But do you know who in Europe still controls it's borders? Switzerland. They don't just let whoever into their country.

    And the EU countries still control their borders in regards to non-EU members. You and I can't just show up in a European country without a passport. Border controls still apply to us.
  17. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    We aren't one country by any stretch.
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  18. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    You guys are close enough that you might as well just become one country.

    My point still stands. You can travel freely through other EU member countries because you have treaties with each other. But non-EU people can not just show up in the EU without going through border controls. Borders still matter.
  19. Amaris

    Amaris Fuzzy Logic Generator

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    You silly socialists and your COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA!!!!!
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  20. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    Sadly there's every chance the UK will be pulling out of that arrangement in the near future and we'll see how well closing off our friends works out. Suffice to say we are already in a position where contingency plans are being put in place by healthcare providers for potential shortages of medication, not to mention the genuine danger of violence around the NI border.

    But no, we've never approached being one country, not in name or spirit, contrary to what you might have heard. What we have had is a set of shared economic interests whose primary and much forgotten advantage was to disincentivise conflict. Throwing that away is a genuine cause for concern at this point.
  21. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    Zombie wants to cut America's dick off and start a new country of Floriduh so he can get a sweet spot at trump kingdom and join the white nationalist centipede.
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  22. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    in truth the move was more to terrorize his gullible base than it was to have any impact on the migrants.
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  23. A Bangkok Atheist

    A Bangkok Atheist Don't believe his lies

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    So the only two countries on the continent are Switzerland and Europe. Got it.

    :dayton:
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  24. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    :facepalm:

    Dude. Just stop with the crap.

    The countries in the EU have treaties that specify that people from countries in the EU can go from country to country without passports or any border controls.

    It's not that there are only two countries in Europe. It's that the bulk of countries are governed by a treaty they signed so they act as if they were a single country for purposes of people moving within the EU. That only applies to people in countries that are in the EU however.

    It doesn't apply to you. If you show up in the EU you still need to deal with customs and border enforcement.
  25. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    You overstated that point though, implying that the countries that comprise the EU are effectively one nation in all but name. That's what people are responding to.
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  26. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Any travel between Schengen areas explicitly doesn't check the immigration status of travelers, including those from outside the EU.
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  27. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    [​IMG]
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  28. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

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    There is almost no evidence of this. No terrorists have ever been captured at the U.S.-Mexican border.
    What's your source? Fox News? :rotfl:
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  29. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Even they don't buy it. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c321e10e4b073352833c7c0/amp
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  30. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    I made a hilarious joke about this already in the "Prez To Address The People" thread!