In 30 years will Democratic Party debates be held at the Obama Library?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Ancalagon, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    In an article about Obama's approval ratings it mentioned how he was on par with Reagan (but below Clinton).
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/obama-approval-rating-new-high/index.html

    It got me to thinking about other similarities.

    Obviously there is the likely situation where both have a follow on Presidency from their party to secure their legacy.

    However bigger might be the long term effect on the party. The 'Reagan Coalition' of big business, religious right, and national security bloc went on to define the party for 35 years. Not only did it shape the Republican Party but the Dems as well, with the Democratic Leadership Council and Bill Clinton having to shift the party to the right in response to it.

    Will 'Obama Dems' do the same to Democrats. Is the coalition of minorities, women, young people and the college educated something that can last? Current trends show it expanding. Will the Republican Party be forced to shift around this bloc like the Dems did? Are we already seeing that with Trumpism?

    What other similarities/differences do people see?
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  2. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Obama will be all but forgotten in 30 years.

    As is fitting.
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  3. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I'm strongly opposed to Obama, but this is bullshit. If you don't think his 8 years in office (and, presumably, Clinton in office for at least one term reinforcing much of his legacy) will have a lasting influence on the country, you're sadly mistaken.
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  4. Liet

    Liet Dr. of Horribleness, Ph.D.

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    Only if Trump wins and the U.S. turns in rapid order into a post-apocalyptic Mad Maxian hellscape.

    Otherwise Obama will go down as a better-than-average President who got some major stuff done, made sone minor mistakes, and spent far too long trying to work with Republicans before giving up and acknowledging that there was no point and he might as well make the best use possible out of his executive powers.
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  5. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    Nobody is going to visit the Obama library unless their Hawaii vacation has become absolute suck.
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  6. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    No, he got some minor stuff done, made many major mistakes, and spent far too long on the golf course.
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  7. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    George W. Bush also spent 8 years in office and the U.S. won two major wars while he was in office as well.
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  8. Mrs. Albert

    Mrs. Albert demented estrogen monster

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    No way. Putting aside everything you may like or dislike about him or his policies, he was the first black president. Household name forever, IMHO.
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  9. Quest

    Quest Let Freedom Ring! Staff Member Administrator

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    Yep. People completely ignorant of history will be able to tell you George Washington was the father of our country, Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves, JFK got shot, and Obama was the first black president.
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  10. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    Actually Bill Clinton was the first black President. Obama was only half black, and had no genetic connection to the descendants of American slaves except perhaps on his mother's side, via the African migration to Eurasia.
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  11. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Noli Me Tangere. Administrator Overlord

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    Refresh my memory, which two wars did we win?
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  12. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    Iraq and Afghanistan, plus really Lebanon and Libya. When Bush left office they were stable and quiet.

    Then Obama fucked them up, announcing fixed withdrawals from Afghanistan and totally withdrawing from Iraq. Then he encourage Arab revolutions, which meant jihadists took over large swaths of the Middle East and pretty much destroyed what remained of the concept of the civilized Arab nation state. He backed the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which thankfully was overthrown by the Egyptian military, and armed jihadists in Libya while overthrowing Qaddafi. Then he armed ISIS and al Nusra in Syria. In Afghanistan he withdrew too many forces and then started diplomatic meetings with the Taliban, without the knowledge or permission of Afghanistan's government. And he green-lighted Iran's nuclear missile program while siding with them against the Iranian green revolution. And of course he held up Yemen as an example of his successful counter-terrorism policy. Yemen is now almost as bad as Syria. He sets a very low bar for success. Meanwhile his closest ally, Erdogan, who he relied on in the surrender to Iran, has conducted a successful purge of non-Islamist, non-nationalist elements and is now freely attacking the Kurdish forces fighting ISIS.

    And we've got 11,000 boots on the ground in Iraq.
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  13. Ramen

    Ramen Banned

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    Obama will also be known as the last black president.
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  14. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

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    The Obama legacy, off the top of my head, forgive me for missing much. See if you can spot the bits that are tongue in cheek.

    Pro:
    -he is black
    -Obamacare (Hillary pretends she never heard of it, Bill ripped on it as shit, it's falling apart, and my min. wage employees that are now covered with MEC plans have no real insurance at the cost of thousands)
    -got the Nobel Peace Prize
    -black "race relations" (without any irony blacks can celebrate 'black only' clubs)
    -bathrooms (no longer is it penis-based, the country has debated the subject way beyond such glibness, and has achieved at least 'roll over and sleep after sex' then use guy's toilet, or 'want to cuddle' then use the chick's)

    Neutral:
    -world doesn't like the US any more than B.O. (before him), and US has lost substantial prestige (a currency infrequently used anyway)
    -Guantanamo - did squat, but only the suckers believed him about that anyway
    -global warming is considered by Obama the greatest threat to US but he's accomplished squat but a lot of hot air on the topic
    -Iraq's a mess, gone from bad to a lot worse, but it's not his problem, it was someone else's fault
    -Libya, etc. same as Iraq
    -Economy, the richer 50% of workers saw their 401k increase by all time equity highs fueled by the easiest free money fed policy ever seen before in history; the poorer 50% saw the worst stagnation of real wage rates since the Great Depression, and US has the smallest labor participation rate in living memory. REAL ESTATE, people [the 'haves'] view their personal wealth chiefly based on the value of their home, but we kicked that fuckin can down the street with a good old moral hazard solution in the great bailout following the subprime crisis; oh, and seven of eight banks failed the stress test last time out [FDIC or Fed's]

    Con:
    -Isis, those wacky Wahhabis, what will they get up to next. Guy can blame others with purdy words, but history will have clearer eyes than modern lefties.
    -Economy, sputtering below 2 per cent most of the time, leftie economists feebly blame a new reality, but when we break 3.5% and even see a 4% quarter sometime in the next 10 years the truth will be recognized [crony capitalism while demonizing and penalizing businessmen is never a formula for growth.]
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  15. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    I'm kinda meh on Obama but I can't help but respect his ability to make people like @gturner and @Tuttle completely batshit crazy.
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  16. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

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    What I wrote is batshit crazy, and you are an intelligent, thoughtful, person who at one point in his life may have had something to contribute. Probably.
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  17. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne 1/06 Was An Inside Job Formerly Important

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    They were already batshit. :borg:
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  18. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    No, we're not.

    Associated Press

    Once lauded as a peacemaker, Obama's tenure fraught with war

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Seven years ago this week, when a young American president learned he'd been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize barely nine months into his first term — arguably before he'd made any peace — a somewhat embarrassed Barack Obama asked his aides to write an acceptance speech that addressed the awkwardness of the award.

    But by the time his speechwriters delivered a draft, Obama's focus had shifted to another source of tension in his upcoming moment in Oslo: He would deliver this speech about peace just days after he planned to order 30,000 more American troops into battle in Afghanistan.

    The president all-but scrapped the draft and wrote his own version.

    The speech Obama delivered — a Nobel Peace Prize lecture about the necessity of waging war — now looks like an early sign that the American president would not be the sort of peacemaker the European intellectuals of the Nobel committee had anticipated.

    On matters of war and peace, Obama has proven to be a confounding and contradictory figure, one who stands to leave behind both devastating and pressing failures, as well as a set of fresh accomplishments whose impact could resonate for decades.

    He is the erstwhile anti-war candidate, now engaged in more theaters of war than his predecessor. He is the commander-in-chief who pulled more than a hundred thousand U.S. troops out of harm's way in Iraq, but also began a slow trickle back in. He recoiled against full-scale, conventional war, while embracing the brave new world of drone attacks. He has championed diplomacy on climate change, nuclear proliferation and has torn down walls to Cuba and Myanmar, but failed repeatedly to broker a lasting pause to more than six years of slaughter in Syria.
    New e-mails released from the State Department shed some light on the opening of Myanmar.


    Hillary Clinton ‘Went to Bat’ for Chevron

    The Clinton Foundation’s corporate donors lobbied Hillary’s State Department to open Burma to American businesses. They got what they wanted.

    Well, we all knew she was a corrupt piece of shit. Anyway, the first article goes on to note:

    By some sobering measures, the case for Obama the peacemaker is difficult to make. Analysts who track conflict, refugee populations, terrorist attacks and political upheaval say the world has only become less peaceful during Obama's tenure, a trend that began just before he took office.

    Instances of terrorism have peaked, deaths in battle around the world are at a 25-year high, and the number of refugees and displaced people has reached a level not seen in sixty years, according to the 2016 Global Peace Index, a report on international stability produced by the nonpartisan think-tank the Institute for Economic and Peace. The researchers attributed the trends to the expanded warfare in the Middle East and North Africa and broad ripples across the region and in Europe.​

    The only person who will look back fondly on Obama's tenure is Jimmy Carter.
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  19. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    That's called a footnote
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  20. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    Like the tallest President, the first Catholic President, the first bachelor President, and the first Native American Vice President.
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  21. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    Good topic.
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  22. Quest

    Quest Let Freedom Ring! Staff Member Administrator

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    More like a headline.

    And just think, he's only 55. I wouldn't expect him to fade into obscurity after his term is over.
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  23. Quest

    Quest Let Freedom Ring! Staff Member Administrator

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  24. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Clinton's is stupid enough
  25. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    I honestly thought after Obama got elected I thought that this would set the tome for not having an "old" president again. Now here we are with two 70 ish finalists. :brood: Nothing wrong with being 70. I'm just saying maybe there are very qualified people a little younger with their best years still in front of them.
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  26. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Noli Me Tangere. Administrator Overlord

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    Yeah, we won those wars, for sure. :dayton:
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  27. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    W
    Why not
  28. Quest

    Quest Let Freedom Ring! Staff Member Administrator

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    Because he's not required to do so and based on what we know of his personality I don't think he'll want to.
  29. markb

    markb Dirty Bastard

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    Now you know why dayton sucked as a 'teacher'.
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  30. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Except that my subject knowledge has never been questioned