Just Because you can own a gun....

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by MikeH92467, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. Muad Dib

    Muad Dib Probably a Dual Deceased Member

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    Well, here's his common sense gun measure: dude abused his 2nd Amendment right and now it's going to be permanently revoked.
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  2. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey official beverage of antifa

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    random thought that the debate is "prevention" vs. "preparation".
  3. Muad Dib

    Muad Dib Probably a Dual Deceased Member

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    What would you propose? Thought crime?
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  4. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Gun safety isn't really thee issue here, either. I mean, let's face it, the guy in this incident knew how to use the gun well enough to shoot the other guy instead of himself (too bad, really). Don't know how it works today, but in radio we used to run whatever PSA's we had and with conservative ownerships like Clear Channel and Cumulus dominating that industry radio spots would get plenty of play.
  5. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Of course, by "measures" you mean "laws" which I've already said aren't the solution here.
  6. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey official beverage of antifa

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    no

    what's your proposition? more cops, courts, and jails?
  7. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    You can't prevent assholes from having guns, as long as there are assholes who want them. But we can work on the decent but stupid. A pre-purchase certification would go a long way to preventing this sort of thing:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...6-year-old-kentucky-loaded-gun_n_3529486.html

    The gun-toting asshole is more a symptom of general social conditions. Frontline might be on to something with his question about why these men had to travel more than an hour to get some titty.
  8. Dan Leach

    Dan Leach Climbing Staff Member Moderator

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    Americans shooting other Americans for no good reason, its a traditional as old as time :)
  9. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    We ran out of Brits to shoot a couple of centuries ago.
    We don't all shoot "for no good reason". Sadly, those idiots make us all look bad.
  10. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    I don't confuse "you" with "them". People who are intelligent enough to hold their own on a discussion board where there are a variety of opinions (whatever the overall political bias may be) are not people that I worry about doing something so flat out stupid.
  11. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    I will say this - anyone who has a history of "road rage" and carries a weapon in the vehicle is playing with fire. I know the most level headed people who turn into monsters behind the wheel - at no other time are they emotionally unstable. And sadly road rage often escalates quickly.

    Luckily I only have a longbow in my car. By the time I got out, strung it up the slow way using a bow-stringer, and nocked an arrow I would have forgotten what I was so upset about.
  12. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Agreed. It is about more than gun safety. it's not like the PSAs have to be just about safety. The material from the NRA and NSSF is about more than just that topic. So we're back to distribution channels. Sure talk radio is gonna run those PSAs. But what about bill boards, TV spots. Marketing has to be done a multi-vector approach to be effective.

    True. But your approach is punitive towards the wrong party and it will most likely have zero positive effect. That is why I am for the PSAs, radio and TV spots, billboards.

    Consider this: every gun store I have been in has already been doing this (pre purchase screening / education), but in a voluntary manner. It usually goes something like this:

    Salesman: Is this your first firearms purchase
    Customer: Yes it is
    Salesman: Since it is, let's review safety, etc.. Also we offer classes for first time owners.
    Customer: Thanks for the initial lesson, where do I sign up for the classes

    While mandating course would be a god send to my bottom line, it would also be the wrong thing to do for the reason above. I also think the courses would lose their effectiveness. By mandating the education you run the big risk of prompting "diploma mills" and diluting the education to get the maximum number of students through in the minimum amount of time. So how do you attempt to prevent that? More regulations, stricter certifications for instructors, more paperwork. You wind up with a bigger bureaucracy and higher costs. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Rather I suggest the following: A cultural mindset within the firearms communities that glorifies safety and education at the same time shunning / shaming those that have never availed themselves of those opportunities. In other words what is already in place.

    The thing is you still wont get the bangers and the idiots. So we're right back to "you can't fix stupid."

    Fixed that for you. In the mean time you might want to look at your stats regarding firearms violence specifically as well as violent crime and homicides. It aint like merry ole England is a paradise of peace and tranquility either.
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  13. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    They already do, and have been doing so for over 100 years. It's only the last few decades they've also gotten this deeply into the political dog & pony show to counter the anti-gun dog & pony show that's grown since the 60s.
  14. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Ever notice who owns most of the digital billboards? Chances are it's Clear Channel outdoors. I completely agree though that there's no way to totally fix stupid. That's where I part company with the Bloomberg types who think passing laws is the solution to everything from gun violence to obesity.

    Education may be the best we can do in both cases, but just because it won't solve the problem in its entirety doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
  15. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Okay, now do you think that Clear Channel is going to donate PSA time on the high value digital bill boards? Im fine with that. Just put them up on a traditional billboard. At the same time there is the issue of TV time that isn't happening.

    I agree with you on the education. What I am trying to say is that it is already happening. Or are you of the position that it should be mandatory?
  16. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Not mandatory...forcing people to be intelligent ain't happening. Time may actually be easier to donate on digital boards since they have multiple avails.

    Since the gun lobby is big on saying that current laws aren't being enforced which ones are they? and how can those laws be used? Can we get the gun lobby behind enforcement?
  17. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Good question. It's a talking point frequently repeated in this forum, but don't dare ask anyone "So what are you doing about it?" As far as the NRA's concerned, the goal seems to be to have everyone mutter "Fuck, yeah!" and walk away.
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    They are, and always have been.
  19. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    And which laws are they and how could they work better?
  20. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    I have to assume that you have not heard the testimony that has been made before congress regarding the abysmal enforcement rates and all of the publicly available statements calling on the administration to actually enforce the existing laws. This is despite I know this being posted before (many times with links) on this board in past, especially the last year.

    Since Im going with that I can tell you that it has happened over and over and enforcement is still weak. Spotty at best, almost non existent in practice. For all practical purposes about the only things the administration has done is issue various executive orders placing new prohibitions and regulations. Yet enforcement of existing laws has been abysmal. This has been pointed out multiple times by groups such as the NRA, GOA, NSSF, etc..
  21. Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee

    Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee Straight Awesome

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    I guess that since Jenee is gone, we have to have at least one antigun retard frittering on about how gun company's don't support enforcement of gun laws.

    Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot, you're not questioning things. You want to learn. :rolleyes:
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  22. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey official beverage of antifa

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    how do you propose people learn, well, anything without asking questions?
  23. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    That *is* how normal people learn things, how ever strange that must seem to you.

    So they testify in front of the very Congresscritters they're endorsing to do the opposite. Not unexpected.
  24. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Part of the problem seems to be that things like beefing up the NICS would cost money and if that's the case wouldn't that run into problems with the "No New Taxes Crowd"?
  25. John Castle

    John Castle Banned Writer

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    There are already expenses that could be reallocated. For example, abolishing the TSA would free up plenty of money for improving the NICS. Scrapping PRISM would do the same thing, as would repealing Obamacare, as would electing not to give money and weapons to Al Qaeda in Syria.
  26. Muad Dib

    Muad Dib Probably a Dual Deceased Member

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    North Carolina has sort of a pre-purchase certification. You have to have a permit to purchase, inherit, or be given a gun in NC.

    It's a remnant of the Jim Crowe laws and was originally intended to prevent blacks from obtaining guns and it's still the law there.

    Is that what you want?
  27. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Wait a second, that is a completely different animal from the dismal enforcement issue. Are we gonna finish that one up before moving on to this?

    In the mean time, about beefing up NICS, what is being proposed as part of the "beefing up" of it? If you mean requirements to report incidents, that's not beefing it up and I agree that states should be reporting everything. At the same times that doesn't carry any meaningful cost increase to do so.
  28. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    Just because you can drive a car doesn't mean you should. Look at Florida's high rate of accidents. Sometimes shit happens :shrug:
  29. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    Now let's consider another point:
    Many people in general are shocked, offended, traumatized, etc. over the very image of guns in any format. Having billboards and other media PSA about gun safety education would backfire (no pun intended). Here's why:
    these same people (those offended) would say that the NRA is trying to recruit our children or otherwise indoctrinate people into their gun "lifestyle."

    Sorry folks, but guns have been so stigmatized and vilified that the dumb masses are deceived into thinking guns will kill their babies, or perhaps entertain them when they go to violent movies.

    Gun owners like Forbin just aren't sexy - he's too responsible and law abiding.
    There's no way he could be a typical gun owner.

    So I guess guns can be okay if the following people use them:

    criminals
    cops
    TV and television actors
  30. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    THAT'S NOT THE GUNS FAULT!!!!!!!!

    :yaoming: