Late Stage Capitalism - HALF of America has 32% LESS wealth than in 2003

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Ancalagon, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    I posted this elsewhere but feel it deserves its own post.


    [from those Commies at the Wall Street Journal using latest Federal Reserve report]


    So the first question to all those adherents to Trickle Down/Faith Based Economics is ‘Is this a feature or a bug’ to you?
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  2. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    Maybe The Poors should stop buying iPhones and avocado toast. :bailey: :yes:
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  3. His Grace Faceman the Duke of Wordforge

    His Grace Faceman the Duke of Wordforge Keeping a Stiff Upper Lip

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    The poors chose not to go to law school and buy a house and cars like me.
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  4. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Late stage Swedish Capitalism, I got a raise of $200 per month this year yet I earn less in USD than when I was employed.
  5. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    They're not really poor, you know. They own refrigerators and televisions. Many of them go out to eat at restaurants like McDonalds and Wendy's. Sounds like they're living too well beyond their means.
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  6. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Thank you, inflation...
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  7. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    1. Households aren't people. The "bottom 50%" is not the same set of individuals in 2003 and 2018.

    2. The trend line for the bottom 50% is positive; that segment's wealth is increasing, even if it hasn't recovered as quickly as the top 50%.

    3. Since there are inevitably more lower income people than there are doctors, lawyers, and Google engineers, it's not surprising that the bottom 50% has approximately nothing.

    4. For those troubled by the data, tell me what the number for the bottom 50% should be. Give me a target number, one you'd be satisfied with. Explain your answer and provide policy to get there.
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  8. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    So can you answer the first question Dr. Pangloss?

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  9. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    We should find a way to punish them. I suggest sporadic acts of humiliation like making them pee in a cup at random intervals.
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  10. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    SmartSelect_20190831-100414_Samsung Internet.jpg

    I brought you breakfast lol
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  11. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Oh, I didn't take that question seriously, but since you insist...

    It's neither bug nor feature, but a reflection of how wealth is distributed in a system that places high value on productivity.

    I suppose, if pressed, I'd call it a feature, since it provides motivation for people to escape or avoid entering that bottom half.
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  12. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    That's not punishment if the rules stipulate than anyone receiving government benefits (myself included because of my :unuts: VA disability) has to remain drug free. It will however help weed out (no pun intended) those lacking the motivation to comply with the rules. :shrug:

    That said f I had my way every government worker from the president, congress, senate, etc. should have to be drug tested even more often than some single mom getting EBT. :yes:
    Talk about needing to bring your "A" GAME! You are running the fucking country! Your ass better be performing with a clear head (grain of salt here) 24/7.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  13. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    Good idea! Maybe we should also have some kind of poor tax. We obviously can’t call it that, but something that will bring in revenue... oh, what about gambling? No wait, the moral crowd won’t go for that. Ah, we’ll call it a lottery! We’ll hold regular drawings, and we could even promise them we’ll donate proceeds to schools. That way they’ll see it as a good thing.
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  14. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    This is a conversation about the US system.

    What system are you talking about?

    9206DB81-1503-48D4-AADE-D138CE4D3D2B.png

    Thanks for the honesty. Most adherents to Faith Based Economics still try and argue it is about improving the lives of regular folks, not punishing them.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  15. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    :rotfl:

    You're so full of shit.
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  16. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    That only compares hourly wages. The growth in the economy is at the professional, salaried end of the scale. A relatively unskilled hourly worker can't do much more in 2019 than in 1980. There are salaried workers--whose jobs didn't even exist five years ago--who create tremendous value.
    It isn't punishment.

    Punishment is intentional: sending a child to bed without his dinner, for instance. This is just reality: we live in a competitive system where compensation is based on value of labor provided. If you don't want low compensation, stay in school and do what you can to learn a valuable trade.

    This is usually called common sense, but many people have gotten the notion they are owed prosperity just for showing up on planet Earth.
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  17. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    You're right. The much higher salary the software engineer at Google gets compared to the janitor is not in any way a reflection of the value created. :rolleyes:
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  18. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    Janitors keep your ass from getting sick. They keep areas free from germs and disease. They are worth just as much as that programmer.

    Elitist snob.
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  19. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Not in any rational, economic sense. And that's why your economic ideas will never work, and why they'll be disastrous anywhere they're tried.
    Think as you like. You don't matter. :shrug:
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  20. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    Just pointing out that between the two of us, only the communist actually gives a shit about the low paid janitor. You, the so-called libertarian, see them as someone to ignore, someone to disdain. You're like every other person who thinks they're so much better because they have money, because they pursued moneyed careers. You see the ones who make less, who do what you consider "unskilled" labor as less than worthy, as the dregs of society, and that's how you would run your society, with the poor being worse off than ever because they couldn't afford to exercise their rights. I don't care what you think of me, but everyone else sees you, too.
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  21. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    Tell that to the many hospitals that close down entirely when janitors strike.

    God, you're myopic and dense. If Wordforge considered you the "smart" conservative once upon a time, how stupid were the rest of the cadre like Adm1Kirk and Sokar and Storm?
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  22. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    You don't love the janitor. You resent the wealthy. The janitor's situation is only a tool for you to use.

    In all heretofore communist regimes, the janitor got repressed every bit as hard as everyone else. That's the equality your philosophy brings.
    I don't disdain anyone who does honest work.
    I don't think I'm better than, well, most people, anyway. If I'm better off than others, I did make good choices and I did work for it.
    I make no claim that a person's intrinsic value is in their economic prosperity. But I do claim that most people can improve their economic lot if they're willing to work for it, and, if they choose not to, well, that's not on me.
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  23. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    This thread is about the decreasing wealth of the bottom 50% compared to increasing wealth of the top 1% since 2003.

    Are you suggesting that janitors have somehow become less productive since 2003?

    Or that the average software engineer is in the top 1%?

    Or that arms-length salaries are the primary cause of this increasing inequity?

    You're so full of shit. :shrug:
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  24. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    Paladin has always been great with empty rhetoric and weak on actual facts. RightForge loves him for it, since facts have never been on their side.

    If he'd been born with fewer marketable skills, he could have become a Charlie Kirk/Ben Shapiro media type. :shrug:
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  25. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    I care about the janitor because I'm not a sociopath who puts wealth ahead of human beings. You talk about people being willing to work for their economic well-being, but you utterly ignore the hard working people who have 2 and 3 jobs who barely have a roof over their head and can't afford basic medicines. You ignore the people born into high wealth who will never have to work a day in their lives. You ignore politicians who are paid by wealthy people and corporations to bend tax laws and other regulations in their favor at the expense of the poor. Your system relies on the exploitation of the poor to work. It relies on them working to their deaths so you can gain more capital. It's also the system that used slave labor and justified it as long as it could before people finally had enough and fought to abolish that slave labor. Now we still have slaves, but they have 60 hour a week jobs where they make minimum wage and are threatened with eviction by landlords who charge far more for a run down piece of shit apartment than it's possibly worth because land speculators make their living off of inflating land values. It's all about exploitation of the poor.

    I do give a damn about the janitor, and the waitress, the person who hands you your coffee in the morning whom you might snicker doesn't deserve $15 an hour because she misspelled your name. I'm the one who sees these hard working people as people, not as drones to be exploited, or as "human resources." What a vile name that is.
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  26. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    You're rebutting an argument I'm not making.

    Not saying that janitorial work is unimportant. All jobs are, to one extent or another, necessary or those jobs wouldn't exist.

    The mistake in your thinking is believing that, because all jobs are necessary, that all jobs are equally valuable. Not true. (As an aside, there also seems to be an inability to grasp that an individual's income and their value as a human being are connected. They aren't.)

    To illustrate:

    A car requires an engine to operate. It also requires some wires from the ignition switch to the control unit.

    Should the engine and the wires be priced the same? They're both necessary, after all.
    I'm here presenting a reasoned argument in a (mostly) respectful way, and what is the response I get?

    Mostly
    :facepalm:
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  27. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    People aren't born with skills.
  28. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    But they can be born with money.
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  29. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    so, are they all worth enough to have a couple hundred square feet and a bathroom to call home? to be able to buy food and a fresh change of clothes every now and then?
    how about their health?
    do they deserve medical care for working?
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  30. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    So Amaris what are you actually doing to help the janitor or waitress? :chris: Other than stating the obvious (different jobs pay different wages) and offering passionate sympathy for those making less (the leftist version of thoughts & prayers) you are no better than Paladin at improving the lot of the working poor. Paladin participates in "wealth redistribution" by paying a shitload of taxes, and some of those programs benefit the working poor for those using the programs.

    So bottom line you are (as James Brown sang) "talkin' loud and sayin' nothing". I guess you can feel good about your shit not stinking so there is that! :yes:
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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