Matthew Shepard not murdered for being gay, new book claims

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Muad Dib, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. Muad Dib

    Muad Dib Probably a Dual Deceased Member

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  2. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    If even 1/10 of these new claims are true, it looks a whole lot less like the whole innocent star student was kidnapped and tortured thing. Meeting some tweakers at a bar and then asking for a ride home from them? Not a smart idea.
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  3. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Why does it matter in the end?
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  4. Clyde

    Clyde Orange

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    Motivations are rarely simple, no surprise it was more than homophobia.
  5. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Beep/Bop/Boop

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  6. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Beep/Bop/Boop

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    That's Pam, from [-]Archer[/-] The Pam Show.

    She's dry-humping a burrito.
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  7. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    So all this conjecture is based on an anonymous letter?

    Uh, yeah, Face sent that.
  8. ed629

    ed629 Morally Inept Banned

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    :facepalm: As long as he was gay, right?
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  9. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

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    Ummmm...

    I'm actually giving Dayton3 the benefit of the doubt here (don't make me regret this, Dayton!) but I think more to the point is that a young man was tied to a fence and BEATEN to death.

    The rest of the details are relatively insignificant, I would think.
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  10. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob They call me Hard Bob, and you know why?

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    History is rewritten and nuanced all the time. Our understanding of the past is an evolving, constructionist craft. Few if any events are black and white.
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  11. Tamar Garish

    Tamar Garish Wanna Snuggle? Deceased Member

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    And should be!

    Yet, it will still be presented as somehow worse if the crime can also be construed as a "hate crime". That people must be punished for not thinking properly while beating the shit out of someone.

    As for the truth, I doubt Matthew Shepard would be a beloved gay icon representing the need for equality and acceptance if his story is really that he was not an innocent gay man victimized for being gay, but a drug pusher who was trying to trade meth for sex and it all went wrong because one of the customers was coming off a meth trip.

    I think it's obvious why the Matthew Shepard Foundation would want to squash this story as fast as humanly possible.
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  12. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    ^Even if Shepard was a drug user or pusher that in no way justifies his beating death or mitigates the crime against him.
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  13. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    So, Muad, do you have a thought, or are you just an unpaid shill for FOXNews?
  14. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    No. But it makes more sense. You hear about drug deals gone bad, criminals killing other criminals, and meth addicts doing stupid destructive things all the time. You tend not to hear about people killing other people because of their sexual orientation that much anymore these days.
  15. The Exception

    The Exception The One Who Will Be Administrator Super Moderator

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    Because it is worse if someone is killed for being gay. Not because the act of being beaten to death is any better or worse, but because those who are gay live in fear of the same thing happening to them.
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  16. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne 1/06 Was An Inside Job Formerly Important

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    After the media circus that was the Zimmerman trial...yeah, I can believe it's in the realm of possibility.

    But like Nick mentioned, gays did live in fear of this, and the recent acceptance of gays in our culture is just that--recent. And while I've never been on a meth trip, why make the effort to tie him up before beating him? Wouldn't that be too much for someone coming off a high? :unsure:
  17. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    ^This. Any time a specific group is targeted, others in that group become more watchful.

    It doesn't have to be about sexual orientation. During the Summer of Sam, thousands of young women in NYC bleached and/or cut their hair because the killer was targeting women with long, dark hair.
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  18. Professor Sexbot

    Professor Sexbot ERROR: 404

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    But isn't someone's intent and reasons for committing a crime always considered a factor in what that person is charged with and what sentence that person receives? Which is worse: The person who steals bread for the thrill of it, or the person who steals bread to feed his starving family? Or would you have us believe that there mere act of stealing bread should garner the same charge and sentence for everyone who does it, regardless of the circumstances?
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  19. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    There's a famous quote I'm not remembering about the concept of history supporting the narrative.

    I think ultimately, the culture NEEDED (still needs) the narrative, and if Shepard turns out to have been something less than the historical narrative needs, well, that won't be the first time and ultimately, history needs the narrative more than they need to see the feet of clay.

    Which is not to deny that that logic can lead to some dark places depending on who's deciding what narrative is "needed"
  20. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    This isn't exactly "new" news. Back during the election, there was a news story about this, with some Congress Critter misinterpreting what happened and calling it a "hoax." (We even had threads about it. No, I'm not going to look for them.)

    Why folks would pick now to dredge this back up is beyond me.
  21. Caboose

    Caboose ....

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    :yes:
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  22. Professor Sexbot

    Professor Sexbot ERROR: 404

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    Essentially "If Matthew Shepard didn't exist, the gay community would have to create him"
  23. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Question: When is murder not a hate crime?
  24. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

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    Uh, no, history needs to be remembered as accurately as possible. The truth needs to be known, no matter what. :bailey:
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  25. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor You know what time it is

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    Define "hate." :shrug:
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  26. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    People kill without feeling a single thing about it all the time.
    It's like swatting flies.

    :shrug:
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  27. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Beep/Bop/Boop

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    A verbose way of saying it's OK to lie to people if it serves a goal you deem positive.

    :bailey:
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  28. Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee

    Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee Straight Awesome

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    Well, yeah. I don't wish anything but good for people, which is why I wish people to abandon the lie of non-heterosexuality.
  29. Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee

    Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee Straight Awesome

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  30. Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee

    Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee Straight Awesome

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    I'm not sure. I don't read pot head. :|
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