Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Muad Dib, Sep 24, 2013.
If even 1/10 of these new claims are true, it looks a whole lot less like the whole innocent star student was kidnapped and tortured thing. Meeting some tweakers at a bar and then asking for a ride home from them? Not a smart idea.
Why does it matter in the end?
Motivations are rarely simple, no surprise it was more than homophobia.
That's Pam, from [-]Archer[/-] The Pam Show.
She's dry-humping a burrito.
So all this conjecture is based on an anonymous letter?
Uh, yeah, Face sent that.
As long as he was gay, right?
I'm actually giving Dayton3 the benefit of the doubt here (don't make me regret this, Dayton!) but I think more to the point is that a young man was tied to a fence and BEATEN to death.
The rest of the details are relatively insignificant, I would think.
History is rewritten and nuanced all the time. Our understanding of the past is an evolving, constructionist craft. Few if any events are black and white.
And should be!
Yet, it will still be presented as somehow worse if the crime can also be construed as a "hate crime". That people must be punished for not thinking properly while beating the shit out of someone.
As for the truth, I doubt Matthew Shepard would be a beloved gay icon representing the need for equality and acceptance if his story is really that he was not an innocent gay man victimized for being gay, but a drug pusher who was trying to trade meth for sex and it all went wrong because one of the customers was coming off a meth trip.
I think it's obvious why the Matthew Shepard Foundation would want to squash this story as fast as humanly possible.
^Even if Shepard was a drug user or pusher that in no way justifies his beating death or mitigates the crime against him.
So, Muad, do you have a thought, or are you just an unpaid shill for FOXNews?
No. But it makes more sense. You hear about drug deals gone bad, criminals killing other criminals, and meth addicts doing stupid destructive things all the time. You tend not to hear about people killing other people because of their sexual orientation that much anymore these days.
Because it is worse if someone is killed for being gay. Not because the act of being beaten to death is any better or worse, but because those who are gay live in fear of the same thing happening to them.
After the media circus that was the Zimmerman trial...yeah, I can believe it's in the realm of possibility.
But like Nick mentioned, gays did live in fear of this, and the recent acceptance of gays in our culture is just that--recent. And while I've never been on a meth trip, why make the effort to tie him up before beating him? Wouldn't that be too much for someone coming off a high?
^This. Any time a specific group is targeted, others in that group become more watchful.
It doesn't have to be about sexual orientation. During the Summer of Sam, thousands of young women in NYC bleached and/or cut their hair because the killer was targeting women with long, dark hair.
But isn't someone's intent and reasons for committing a crime always considered a factor in what that person is charged with and what sentence that person receives? Which is worse: The person who steals bread for the thrill of it, or the person who steals bread to feed his starving family? Or would you have us believe that there mere act of stealing bread should garner the same charge and sentence for everyone who does it, regardless of the circumstances?
There's a famous quote I'm not remembering about the concept of history supporting the narrative.
I think ultimately, the culture NEEDED (still needs) the narrative, and if Shepard turns out to have been something less than the historical narrative needs, well, that won't be the first time and ultimately, history needs the narrative more than they need to see the feet of clay.
Which is not to deny that that logic can lead to some dark places depending on who's deciding what narrative is "needed"
This isn't exactly "new" news. Back during the election, there was a news story about this, with some Congress Critter misinterpreting what happened and calling it a "hoax." (We even had threads about it. No, I'm not going to look for them.)
Why folks would pick now to dredge this back up is beyond me.
Essentially "If Matthew Shepard didn't exist, the gay community would have to create him"
Question: When is murder not a hate crime?
Uh, no, history needs to be remembered as accurately as possible. The truth needs to be known, no matter what.
People kill without feeling a single thing about it all the time.
It's like swatting flies.
A verbose way of saying it's OK to lie to people if it serves a goal you deem positive.
Well, yeah. I don't wish anything but good for people, which is why I wish people to abandon the lie of non-heterosexuality.
I am not this guy:
I'm not sure. I don't read pot head. :|
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