More batshit nuttery from Ohio

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by shootER, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. K.

    K. Sober

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    Well, they didn't conceive of a modern free press, for instance. That happened by reinterpretation in the early 20th century. I'm in favour of it, how about you?
  2. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Not the nukes and nerve gas track again.

    These weapons are not kept or borne by an individual. They are not weapons wieldable by an individual.
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  3. K.

    K. Sober

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    No. I'm saying it doesn't work for 2019 in any immediate sense at all, and it wasn't intended to.
  4. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    I'm thinking briefcase nukes or maybe fanny-pack nukes for the posers. I think that's a fair compromise!
  5. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    The idea of the 1st Amendment was that the citizen has the right to self-expression, which logically encompasses modern means.

    The idea of the 2nd Amendment was that the citizen has the right to resist tyranny by force of arms, which logically encompasses modern means.

    In either case, if you presume the right's protection extends only to those means contemporary with the drafting of the Constitution, the right becomes worthless.
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  6. K.

    K. Sober

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    And yet that's exactly how you're treating the 2nd.
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  7. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    This. You can't say with intellectual honesty that the First Amendment covers Twitter and Instagram, but the Second Amendment doesn't cover anything newer than muzzle-loading muskets. That ain't how it works.
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  8. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    How so?

    Because I don't make the nukes and nerve gas argument?
  9. K.

    K. Sober

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    I don't think anyone has said that.
  10. K.

    K. Sober

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    You do make it. And the way you make it is by referring not to what the amendment says, or what its stated purpose is, but by referring to what weapons were and weren't available at the time.
  11. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Neutron bomb? Welcome to the 1960s.
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  12. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Huh?!?

    That's the opposite of what I've said.

    I've said that small arms suitable for resisting tyranny are protected. I make ZERO claims about strategic weapons, weapons of mass destruction, or ordnance. These may well be useful in fighting tyranny but they are not the type of arms a militiaman would bear.

    A protected weapon was a flintlock 200 years ago, it's an AR-15 today, and it will be--who knows?--a phaser or somesuch in 100 years.
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  13. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Huh, seems like you're trying to project intent into the words of the founders rather than taking the words as they literally are. :evilpop:
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  14. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    A plain reading of the words reveals the intent.

    The words unequivocally protect the right of the people to keep and bear arms, and the prohibition on the government infringing it is linked to the militia's role in securing a free state.

    If the 2nd read like this....

    A well-educated populace being necessary to the prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to own and read books shall not be infringed.

    Would you argue that (1) citizens have no right to own or read books, (2) it expresses no interest in promoting education and literacy, or (3) a well-educated populace has nothing to do with people having books?
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  15. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I'm totally fine if you want to say that it's appropriate to consider intent.
  16. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    It's seldom necessary, as the plain text is usually quite clear, as I maintain it is with the 2nd Amendment.

    However, where intent is considered it must never take priority over the explicit text, and should be determined from and consistent with the text.
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  17. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Beat me to it.

    CBS weapons were rendered obsolete by FOX weapons, which are currently doing the same to CNN weapons. CBS weapons could make a return to relevancy, but I'm not holding my breath, as it'd largely require a systemic disarmement of FOX weapons.








    :meh:
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  18. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    If intent was so clear that everyone could agree with it, we wouldn't need judicial review.
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  19. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    I make one comment on why I think politicians make laws without knowing all the facts, and the main topic is completely lost under the weight of bloviation by people obsessed with hating the offhand-mentioned tertiary topic. Unbelievable.
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  20. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    So, I take it you're new to the interwebs?
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  21. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    You still have not answered whether or not you feel the people who made the second amendment were incapable of doing so as you implied by your statement.

    Did you think I forgot?
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  22. K.

    K. Sober

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    Right. You expexted that everyone else would do the opposite of what you did and stick to the original topic.
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  23. K.

    K. Sober

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    I might well argue that the authors would have focused on the internet today, and that an interpretation that absolutely refuses to even consider the internet because books can be carried around by one person while the internet cannot misses the point.
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  24. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    Well, the topic, in part, touched on politicians making stupid laws that affect innocent people without knowing all the facts or considering the consequences. I didn't expect one offhand comment on why I believe that to totally skew the topic from abortion to guns for several pages. I expected a couple of eyerolls and a shut up, maybe, then back on track. I waqs actually more interested in what people had to say about the abortion topic. But, hey, go on if it makes y'all happy.

    Oh, and, I gather by some of the disjointed conversation snippets that either Terrorbuns or Garamet are commenting. They're on ignore.
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  25. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    So then we can only assume this is forbin admitting that the second amendment was written by people who were incapable of properly writing it like he claims.

    No problem with that. Forbin thinks the second amendment is full of shit and we should note that whenever he defends it in the future.
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  26. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Did somebody fart or is Forbin posting here? :chris:
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  27. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Corn of Coblin

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    [​IMG]
  28. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Corn of Coblin

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  29. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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  30. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    Rather, "Stupid politicians making uninformed decisions on an important topic doesn't surprise me, because I've often seen stupid politicians make uninformed decisions on other important topics."
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