Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Quest, Aug 3, 2017.
And undermine their own investigation? Hell no.
Zombies sits down in restaurant, orders steak
3 seconds later, gets up and leaves
is overheard to say "that place was a real nothing burger!"
Dude, a massively complex CI investigation of a potential series of crimes that are potentially still ONGOING is not going to be over and reported out until the perp is in custody or otherwise neutered. And the ongoing nature aside, two years would be a damn short turnaround for something so huge.
Likewise the non-russia crimes. Potential decades of highly complex financial crimes are not parsed, charged, convicted and publicized in a year. Y'all are using this very weak "so where are the results?!!?" dodge to keep from having to admit - yet - that y'all were wrong all along.
Also, even that whine only really applies to the principles because you have to go back in history a LONG way to accumulate a list of Democrats in similar positions charged, convicted, plead guilty, and fined that's as long as Mueller's list - and those resulting generally from investigations longer than the 20 months Mueller has been at work. But sure, "nothingburger"
Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows at the White House.
Yowza. My very quick first-blush take on the meaty nuggets...
Let’s dive in! 1/
n the days after Comey’s firing, the FBI opened a COUNTERINTELLIGENCE investigation of Trump himself.
Unlike the initial Trump-Russia investigation (which was looking primarily at events in 2016), the counterintel investigation was basically surveillance in 2017+. 2/
Naturally, deciding to basically turn your national security and intelligence magnifying glasses on the President of the United States is a BIG DEAL. The FBI didn’t enter into it lightly. 3/
But then Trump fired Comey... AND... did two more things that raised red flags. The first: he wrote a letter on Comey’s firing and mentioned Russia. The subtle Easter egg there: the FBI had the draft of the unsent letter. 4/
Now, tie that together with the fact that this story was broken by Mike Schmidt of the NYT. As I’ve said often in the past, I am of the belief that former White House Counsel Don McGahn is Schmidt’s source for these big bombshells. 5/
If that is indeed the case, McGahn may very well have been working with Mueller months earlier than we ever knew. Somehow, the FBI had a draft of an unsent letter immediately. If not McGahn, it could well have been turned over by Rosenstein. Regardless, the FBI was on it. 6/
Moving right along, the implications of this are potentially enooooormous. Mueller didn’t just inherit ONE investigation focused on what happened before. He also inherited a second which was actively tracking Trump’s actions AS THEY WERE UNFOLDING. 7/
That counterintelligence investigation would have required approval at the DOJ. I can’t see how that would have been possible without Jeff Sessions’ buy-in, or at minimum, awareness. I’d be shocked if that all went down without Sessions even hearing about it. 8/
Maybe Rosenstein parlayed Sessions’ recusal into keeping all this a secret. If that’s the case, expect Trump to be looking for Rosenstein’s head on a platter any minute now. If he goes off on Rosenstein, Rod knew. Jefferson Beauregard didn’t. 9/
Anyway, I digress. Another doozy of this now-revealed real-time counterintel probe of Trump itself: It basically served as a safety net the entire time we sat fretting about Trump firing Mueller. 10/
The FBI was investigating potential crimes... while also monitoring the chief potential criminal in case he tried to interfere with their work. Think about that... the FBI’s counterintel resources were trained on the guy who had a “private chat” w Putin in Helsinki. 11/
We don’t know what actions that investigation took. It is fair to assume it included mining ongoing intel from our own resources at the NSA, etc., as well as from allies. That would have the effect of putting relevant work-product of any ally’s spying in Mueller’s hands. 12/
Meaning, even if we weren’t eavesdropping on Trump’s convo w Putin, his late-night phone calls, his admin’s back-channel contacts with Russians, etc... someone was. Whether it was the UK, Germany, Estonia, Spain, Israel, Australia or whomever, EVERYONE spies on Russia... 13/
...and Mueller had an open folder just waiting to be filled with whatever tasty nuggets those eyes and ears happened to pass our way. Think: A real-time Steele dossier with updates baked fresh daily. 14/
Bringing it down out of Tom Clancy “Hunt for Orange October” territory to a more modest, conservative takeaway, we can count on at least this much: The counterintel investigation makes it highly likely Mueller has obstruction charges nailed six ways to Sunday. 15/
Why? The CI work was essentially spying or tracking from Comey’s firing foreward. At minimum, it would have provided intel on the obstruction effort as it unfolded... and, at minimum, that would have guided Mueller’s interviews. 16/
Remember all those witnesses who came out of meetings w Mueller saying he knew EVERYTHING? He did. Erik Prince, Stone, Corsi, McGahn, et al. He knew everything when they walked in. He had people paying attention after they walked out. 17/
Okay, I’m spinning like a top here so let me bring this in for a landing: Trump has spent the last two years trying to obstruct an investigation into 2016 events... ...and little did he know, his biggest problem would prove to be what he was doing in 2017-2018. 18/
I think we now better understand why Mueller never called in Kushner or Junior. They were caught up in a live counterintel sweep. Questioning them would have given that away. That earth-shaker is about to sink in for them. Their problems just got 10x bigger. 19/
Last comment. Sry for rambling. Knowing all of this, I virtually guarantee Mueller turned an insider or two. Flipped informants. Not just witnesses. Informants. Don McGahn is a prime candidate. Mueller likely turned someone in the Admin itself. I’d bet many beers on it.
*Gets out the circus sized bag of popcorn, and the whole toppings bar from the movie theater*
garamet counts the number of times @Zombie's predictions have fallen on their asses and chuckles quietly.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that Twitter handle has been very wrong about Trump investigation stuff in the past. I could be wrong though.
Are you counting yours and everyone elses?
There are hundreds of:
WE GOT HIM!!!!!!!
Only to be followed up with:
Not from me, you haven't. I remember the Nixon years. The mills of the gods grind slowly.
no one is saying "we got him" as in "perp walk next week bitches!"
The "we got him" theme, to the extent that it exists, is "here's another brick in the walls which are slowly closing in."
This is not a situation with a dramatic Hollywood takedown - it's a slow accumulation of deeply incriminating information that builds to such a scope and volume that at some point even the Quisling Party will realize the ship is inevitably going down. Each new expansion of what we know in the public record - like the bad-redaction reveal - is a cause for yet another satisfied nod.
All that said, Mueller is not the savior because all he can do is compile the report. The GOP is in the midst of a long term (decades long) crusade against majoritarian government designed to consolidate their hold on power in spite of - knowing - it doesn't have popular support...and their a decade into the most aggressive active phase. They will go to the VERY limit of what they can get away with in order to keep Trump's crimes from derailing that project...no matter what safeguards against fascism have to be knocked over in the process.
This matter is not ultimately just about Trump, but being strong enough as a country to get through this situation without the whole thing flying apart - because Cult45 will absolutely lose their shit when the hammer falls and there's a real danger the GOP encourages that outcome.
Guess we can add Zombie to the hangin' list.
Not that he's guilty, we just hang dumb fucks hereabouts.
@Zombie thinks in binary.
On Friday, the New York Times reported that “in the days after President Trump fired James B. Comey as F.B.I. director, law enforcement officials became so concerned by the president’s behavior that they began investigating whether he had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests.” That investigation may well be continuing under the auspices of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. We don’t know what Mueller has learned. But we can look at the key, publicly available evidence that both supports and undercuts this explosive allegation.
Here is some of the evidence suggesting “Individual 1” could be a Russian “asset”:
— Trump has a long financial history with Russia. As summarized by Jonathan Chait in an invaluable New York magazine article: “From 2003 to 2017, people from the former USSR made 86 all-cash purchases — a red flag of potential money laundering — of Trump properties, totaling $109 million. In 2010, the private-wealth division of Deutsche Bank also loaned him hundreds of millions of dollars during the same period it was laundering billions in Russian money. ‘Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,’ said Donald Jr. in 2008. ‘We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia,’ boasted Eric Trump in 2014.” According to Trump attorney Michael Cohen’s guilty plea of lying to Congress, Trump was even pursuing his dream of building a Trump Tower during the 2016 campaign with the help of a Vladimir Putin aide. These are the kind of financial entanglements that intelligence services such as the FSB typically use to ensnare foreigners, and they could leave Trump vulnerable to blackmail.
— The Russians interfered in the 2016 U.S. election to help elect Trump president.
— Trump encouraged the Russians to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails on July 27, 2016 (“Russia, if you’re listening”), on the very day that Russian intelligence hackers tried to attack Clinton’s personal and campaign servers.
— There were, according to the Moscow Project, “101 contacts between Trump’s team and Russia linked operatives,” and “the Trump team tried to cover up every single one of them.” The most infamous of these contacts was the June 9, 2016, meeting at Trump Tower between the Trump campaign high command and a Kremlin emissary promising dirt on Clinton. Donald Trump Jr.’s reaction to the offer of Russian assistance? “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”
— The Trump campaign was full of individuals, such as Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, Paul Manafort, Rick Gates and Michael Flynn, with suspiciously close links to Moscow.
— Manafort, who ran the Trump campaign for free and was heavily in debt to a Russian oligarch, now admits to offering his Russian business partner, who is suspected of links to Russian intelligence, polling data that could have been used to target the Russian social media campaign on behalf of Trump.
— Trump associate Roger Stone, who was in contact with Russian conduit WikiLeaks, reportedly knew in advance that the Russians had hacked Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails. (Stone has denied it .)
— Once in office, Trump fired Comey to stop the investigation of the “Russia thing” — and then bragged about having done so to the Russian ambassador and foreign minister while also sharing with them top-secret information. Later, Trump fired Attorney General Jeff Sessions because he would not end the special counsel investigation that resulted after the firing of Comey. As Lawfare editor Benjamin Wittes argues, “the obstruction was the collusion” — Trump has been effectively protecting the Russians by trying to impede the investigation of their attack on the United States.
— Trump has refused to consistently acknowledge that Russia interfered in the U.S. election or mobilize a government-wide effort to stop future interference. He has accepted Putin’s protestations that the Russians did not meddle in the election over the “high confidence” assessment of the U.S. intelligence community that they did.
— Like no previous president, Trump attacks and undermines the Justice Department and the FBI (“a cancer in our country”) — two institutions that stand on the front lines of combatting Russian espionage and influence operations in the United States.
— Again, like no previous president, Trump attacks and undermines the European Union and NATO — he has suggested that France should leave the E.U. and that the United States should leave NATO, reportedly saying, “NATO is as bad as NAFTA.” The E.U. and NATO are the two major obstacles to Russian designs in Europe.
— Trump supports populist, pro-Russian leaders in Europe, such as Viktor Orban in Hungary and Marine Le Pen in France, just as the Russians do.
— Trump has praised Putin (“a strong leader”) while trashing just about everyone else from grade-B Hollywood celebrities to leaders of allied nations. Trump even praised Putin for expelling U.S. diplomats and, notwithstanding instruction from his aides (“DO NOT CONGRATULATE”), congratulated Putin on winning a rigged reelection.
— Trump was utterly supine in his meetings with Putin, principally in Hamburg and Helsinki. Even more suspicious, according to a Post article on Saturday, Trump “has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with . . . Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials . . . Several officials said they were never able to get a reliable readout of the president’s two-hour meeting in Helsinki.”
— Trump defends the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and repeats other pro-Russian talking points.
— Trump is pulling U.S. troops out of Syria, handing that country to Russia and its ally Iran.
— Trump has effectively done nothing in response to the Russian attack on Ukrainian ships in international waters, thereby encouraging greater Russian aggression.
— Trump is sowing chaos in the government, most recently with a record-breaking partial government shutdown and “acting” appointees in key posts such as the Defense Department and Justice Department, thus furthering a Russian objective of undermining its chief adversary.
Now that we’ve listed 18 reasons Trump could be a Russian asset, let’s look at the exculpatory evidence. . .
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I can’t think of anything that would exonerate Trump aside from the difficulty of grasping what once would have seemed unimaginable: that a president of the United States could actually have been compromised by a hostile foreign power.
In his own defense, Trump claims he has been tougher on Russia “than any other President,” but literally in the next sentence he says, “getting along with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing.” When the United States actually has taken steps to get tough with Russia in the past two years, it has usually been the work of Congress (the 2017 Russia sanctions bill) or Trump aides (expelling 60 Russian diplomats). The Post reports that Trump was “furious” when his administration was portrayed as being tough on Russia, and NBC News reports that he instructed subordinates never to publicly discuss plans to sell weapons to Ukraine.
This is hardly a “beyond a reasonable doubt” case that Trump is a Russian agent — certainly not in the way that Robert Hanssen or Aldrich Ames were. But it is a strong, circumstantial case that Trump is, as former acting CIA director Michael Morell and former CIA director Michael V. Hayden warned during the 2016 campaign, “an unwitting agent of the Russian federation” (Morell) or a “useful fool” who is “manipulated by Moscow” (Hayden). If Trump isn’t actually a Russian agent, he is doing a pretty good imitation of one.
and unless I missed it, Boot didn't include Kushner's attempt to back-channel to the Russians (see the link below) or the Trump Tower/Alpha Bank servers
Michael Cohen to testify to Congress on February 7; Dems give stern warning to Trump not to interfere
Though various commentators have suggested it is unlikely he will reveal any Russia stuff, but more of Trump's dodgy dealings is likely.
Just a reminder of the timeline here - click the link to see the full list.
I hate Russia birthers. Though not as much as illinois nazis.
The 'laundry list of reasons' may be the least convincing argument of all. Even his "best" on the list is not remotely persuasive.
Nobody likes Illinois Nazis.
Speaking of, has the GOP done anything about the one who actually got elected?
^Pretty o/t, but news reports say "yes."
Funny thing, if you asked the guy (I think King from Iowa) point blank: do you think whites are better than blacks? I'd bet good money his reply would be "no of course not."
The guy's apparently just an idiot - though he might be an anna-level bigot too, I don't know I'm not a mind reader, but the shit he recently said in the interview suggest 'yes, a mid-level bigot.'
He apparently went into the same argument the Dem's make, that "white Christians" helped build the best civilization to date. And apparently went on to say he thinks that situation's all white. Is he as dumb as the Congressman worried about Guam capsizing? Maybe.
I just checked, when asked later he said he was not an advocate for “white nationalism and white supremacy.” “I want to make one thing abundantly clear: I reject those labels and the evil ideology they define,” he wrote. So he is alternatingly both for and against white supremacy, and just can't keep track of when is the right time to lie about it? Does that make sense? Anyway, imo, the GOP would be well rid of him, some sad baggage, but all they've done so far is strip him of committes and get set to 'primary' him.
Giulani tonight with Cuomo: "I never said there was no collusion… I have no idea."
Jesus Christ. And yet for most Rs they are so far gone that they’ll just accept it and move on.
If it even makes it into their bubble.
Separate names with a comma.