Mueller Investigation

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Quest, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    The kind of people who would cheer at this:

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  2. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    That reminds me of the people who took offense at (or who've actually embraced) Clinton's "deplorables" comment.

    Anyone with two brain cells to rub together understood/understands that she was referencing a particular subset of Trump supporters. You know, the fine folks who were at Charlottesville.

    But my Facebook is filled with "proud deplorables" who I know IRL and who are nothing at all like those scumbags with the swastikas. :facebook:
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  3. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    No, not to this extent that he was the single worst businessman in the entire country and lost the most of any person in the US? Proof of his complete incompetence has never been so perfectly laid clear before.
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  4. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

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    I wouldn't and I didn't cheer to that, but he was obviously joking. He may not be wrong though.
  5. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Yeah, I only have one friend who identifies himself as a "deplorable," and he's anything but. Career USN, nuclear engineer, salt of the earth. Maybe he meant it as a joke; I don't know. But we're still friends.

    The two - former - friends (the type whose profile photos feature them pointing a weapon at the camera) unFriended me. Unlike Dayton, I appreciate diversity, and I figured they'd calm down once they realized Obama wasn't going to take their guns. Instead, I guess they were so terrified of being seen in the company of libruls that they ran away. :sigh:
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  6. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Donnie wouldn't recognize a joke if he tripped over one on the way to the 18th green. But now you know what I mean by a MAGAzombie.
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  7. matthunter

    matthunter Good enough

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    Yep. Trump is the master of "I'd never say this, but I'm saying it" and then playing it as a joke later.

    Most recently? Pointing out how other countries would shoot immigrants trying to cross the border "but of course we'd never do that" then chuckling and saying "you can only get away with saying that here" when an audience member cried "SHOOT THEM!!".

    The days when folk like John McCain would actually stand up to audience members saying shit like "Obama's a Muslim!!!" and correct them are long gone.

    Hell, McConnell is selling #CocaineMitch T-shirts on his campaign website because someone called him that as a slur and then lost their race. This is the party that says drug abuse is the worst and users deserve more jail time than white collar criminals who deprive hundreds of their savings...
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  8. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  9. matthunter

    matthunter Good enough

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    I'm OK with the judge having it and releasing any pertinent info to Stone for his defence, but not with him and his lawyers having the whole damn thing before Congress gets it. It'll be in Trump's hands for spinning his way in five seconds flat, just like Barr's fucking "summary".
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  10. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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    Stone's lawyers are trying everything they can think of to clog the gears. "Probe's over, that means our guy's off the hook, right?" :lol: Not how it works. They even tried the same trick that's already been rejected over and over of questioning the legitimacy of the special counsel appointment. No dice there either. Demanding the full report is just another delay tactic. The judge wants to see it in order to know how much if any should be released to the defense.
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  11. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    What I am really tired of is hearing lying racists like yourself lying and trying to claim illegal alien criminals are "immigrants". That you are willing to lie shows you simply should be ignored on this issue and that your opinions have no value.
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  12. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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  13. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  14. matthunter

    matthunter Good enough

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    :gafom:
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  15. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    Just saying.
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  16. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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  17. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Good news everyone! I'm most of the way over the flu I've had for the last 2 weeks, and I have enough time and energy to continue reading the Mueller report. When we last left off 4-6 pages ago, I'd just finished Section III of Volume I.

    Moving on to Section IV. "Russian Government Links to and Contacts with the Trump Campaign"

    The top line of the section is that the investigation did not establish that direct links to the campaign resulted in coordination between the campaign and the Russian government. It goes on to talk about all of the links between them, starting with the Trump Tower Moscow efforts. No surprises here if you've been following along. The Trump Org and Michael Cohen in particular claimed that they thought running for President would be good for getting Trump Tower Moscow built and that they weren't even considering the implications of TTM on the 2016 election. I'm not sure that's credible. Felix Sater's email to Cohen lays out the implications in no uncertain terms. Either Cohen didn't read it, or he's massively downplaying it. Michael Cohen ultimately declined to go to Russia when invited, because his official invitation wasn't sufficiently obviously from the Russian government. That looks an awful lot to me like he was trying to get the sort of endorsement from Putin that Sater described in his email.

    The next subsection describes Papadopoulos's efforts to arrange a meeting between Trump and Putin. There is a line and change of redacted material on page 85, to complete the sentence "Papadopoulos's message came at a time when Clovis perceived a shift in the Campaign's approach toward Russia-from one of engaging with Russia through the NATO framework and taking a strong stance on Russian aggression in Ukraine, [Grand Jury redacted]" which I suspect won't be uninteresting when revealed. Likewise, when discussing who (if anyone) else on the campaign knew that Mifsud had told Papadopoulos about the Russians having dirt on Clinton, there's another large redacted Grand Jury info section. Sam Clovis said he couldn't remember Papadopoulos telling him, but he also "couldn't remember" attending a conference at which he was photographed at the same table as Papadopoulos. I don't buy it. That said, the OSC found no written evidence that Papadopoulos told the campaign about it, so unless that Grand Jury info is an eyewitness account, another party to their conversation, there's no useful evidence there. Papadopoulos also met with Sergei Millian, who sent him a message promising to "share with you a disruptive technology that might be instrumental in your political work for the campaign." He was unable to be interviewed for the investigation, having not been in the country for the entire duration of the investigation. Nothing suspicious there. :rolleyes:

    Next up, Carter Page. There's a few things redacted here, and to be honest, I can't really tell if they're important or not. Oh, wait, when you get a bit further down, there's a huge Grand Jury redacted chunk that certainly looks interesting: the last ⅓ of an email from Page to the rest of the campaign, and information that appears to indicate that he lied about something; the last clause of the next sentence is "thus, Page's activities in Russia-as described in his emails with the Campaign-were not fully explained." When the press took note of Page's trip to Russia and pro-Russian views, the campaign lied and said that he'd been only an informal advisor, unaware of his movements. What a crock. There are emails from Corey Lewandowski acknowledging his trip.

    Carter Page will return in a couple subsections, but I need to get to sleep.
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  18. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    More contacts ahead: Dmitri Simes and the Center for National Interest. This one appears to be largely irrelevant, except that it provides the basis for Sessions' failure to recall meeting with Kislyak that ultimately led to his recusal and the creation of the OSC. It also includes a linguistic template for when Mueller agrees that something is actually a nothing-burger: "The investigation did not identify evidence that the Campaign passed or received any messages to or from the Russian government through CNI or Simes." So we have, I think, 5 tiers of factuality: "established X didn't happen", "did not identify evidence of X", "did not establish X", "identified evidence of X," and "established X"

    Later on, there's one PP redacted section that appears to be about a back channel between Bill Clinton and the Russian government from the late 90's. The info was considered old news and not acted on. Doesn't seem that Simes had anything to say about Hillary Clinton.

    At long last in Subsection 5, we come to the June 9th, 2016 meeting at Trump Tower. I'll let the summary speak for itself, bold mine.

    Don Jr. tried to conspire with the Russian government, but failed. How the hell is attempted conspiracy not chargeable? Answer: Don Jr. was too stupid to know what he was doing was illegal. Paul Manafort certainly knew it was though.

    Trump maintains that he didn't know about the meeting, but the timeline doesn't hold up:

    There's a bit about the aftermath of the meeting. Everyone involved seemed pretty eager to cover up this meeting, and payoffs were offered to certain people (not in the campaign) in the process.
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  19. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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    I started this thread (currently 3rd longest in Red Room history :toast: ), I contributed posts to keep it going, I helped keep it focused on topic…

    …and it was all so @Order2Chaos could post his analysis of the report. :hail:
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  20. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Subsection 6: contacts at the GOP Convention

    The summary begins with Kislyak talking to Sessions and J. D. Gordon, evidence indicating there was nothing substantive discussed. That said, Gordon was the one responsible for diluting the language in the platform supporting Ukraine, allegedly at Trump's behest. Later, we find that Sessions, Gordon, and Page all talked to Kislyak, the latter two at the same time during a meal. The topic of discussion with Page is not mentioned, much to my consternation.

    Gordon claims that the decision to dilute the language was implied a March 31 foreign policy meeting within the campaign. Not mentioned here is that this was a mere 2 days after Paul Manafort joined the campaign, which undoubtedly put additional pro-Russian sentiment into the campaign. Corey Lewandowski said that Manafort was essentially running the show by 4/7, so it's far from implausible that he was already exerting influence within the campaign. Other members of the campaign questioned whether or not Gordon's objections to the stronger language in the platform meeting were out of line.

    Subsection 6 end having had no redactions outside of the footnotes.

    After the convention, Kislyak made many attempts to contact campaign officials again (some successfully), but the SCO did not identify any evidence in those interactions of coordination between the campaign and the Russian government. Kislyak did not meet with Gordon, but did meet with Sessions.

    There's very little interesting in subsections 6-7, except the date of that foreign policy meeting.
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  21. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  22. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  23. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    :corn:

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  24. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  25. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/data-standards-and-definitions/definition-terms#9

    Official Department of Homeland Security definition is a lawful resident alien. Another definition I found is a person who naturalized to another country this becoming a citizen of that country

    So, no, illegal aliens are not immigrants. They are illegal aliens.
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  26. K.

    K. Sober

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    From your source:

    "the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) broadly defines an immigrant as any alien in the United States, except one legally admitted under specific nonimmigrant categories (INA section 101(a)(15)). An illegal alien who entered the United States without inspection, for example, would be strictly defined as an immigrant"

    Not that government agencies are better sources for the meanings of words than dictionaries. But in this case they agree, and disagree with you.
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  27. TheLonelySquire

    TheLonelySquire Fresh Meat

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    Illegal aliens should be imprisoned until deported. We should use whatever force is necessary for compliance.
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  28. K.

    K. Sober

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    If you insist. How about you start with all these white people running around on the wrong continent?
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  29. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    I'd point out it's the dictionary which defines the meanings of words, not the US Office of Homeland Security, but since @K. already did that for me and more, there's really nothing to add here.
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  30. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    How can you call someone a liar and then turn around and post that bullshit?
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