Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Quest, Aug 3, 2017.
I don't think the constitution speaks to it. The OLC opinion is simply that. Congress can and should pass legislation to clarify otherwise.
Straight up bullshit. The word "collusion" appears nowhere in his remit, interactions between Russian persons and U.S. persons were in fact found, per the remit, but the remit was in no way limited to investigating only such interactions.
This is the appointment letter
In the introductory paragraph it states he is to investigate "the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 election
That's the base, foundational, assignment and precisely what he did. Per various and sundry indictments handed down by the grand juries.
Subordinate to that it authorizes investigation re "any links and or co-ordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign."
Note the absence of the word "collusion"
Within the constraints of many noted instance of obstruction which hindered the investigation, he documented numerous contacts though most, with the notable exception of Flynn, were with cutouts on the Russian side or "not officially part of the campaign" (i.e. Roger Stone et al) folks on the American side which while corrupt do not fall neatly into the specific wording "Russian GOVERNMENT and...associate with the Trump CAMPAIGN."
Moreover, in his report he didn't say at any point anything that resembles "found none" regarding anything he was tasked to investigate.
It's kinda fascinating to see people, from public officials like Barr, all the way down to internet shitposters like you, deliberately set fire to every last shred of their intellectual credibility in the fierce defense of the most corrupt public official/administration possibly in the history of the country, and one that shows all the signs of metastasizing into a Putin style kleptocratic autocracy right before our eyes.
For generations conservatives tried to paint themselves as the only true patriots and the only defenders of freedom and when the aspiring autocrat arrives they are the very first to eagerly bend the knee.
No, he was not brought on to investigate collusion, in fact it specifically states in the report that was a media construct and not his actual remit.
The original appointment document shows that Mueller was to investigate Russian interference and, in particular,...
That certainly sounds like it could encompass what is commonly meant by "collusion." The word "collusion" isn't used as it doesn't have any specific legal meaning (i.e., it's not a specific crime). But collusion in this case--as seemingly everyone right, left, and center understands it--means unlawful conspiracy with a foreign power to influence an election. Don't pretend like YOU didn't know that.
Here's @Nova from March of last year (and there's plenty more where this came from)...
So, to say "it was never about collusion" because the word collusion isn't used is akin to saying an extortion case really wasn't about blackmail because the word "blackmail" wasn't used.
It's a little late to be trying to pull the "it really wasn't about that" stunt. It was about that, and YOU accepted that it was about that. Frankly, I think you're trying to distance yourselves from it since you spent two years beating that particular drum and it's now been shown to be baseless.
So on one hand you are saying the word collusion is not a crime because it is not used in law, and on the other hand you admit that the original investigation purpose and findings were about the law which does not have the word collusion in it, and found that there was violations of the law, but Mueller did not find any collusion which he was not looking for in the first place?
OMG here is the problem with your dancing around with words. You are so fucked up you don't even know what you are talking about. I used to wonder what speaking out of both sides of your mouth looked like, but you trumpistas have made it very clear.
At any rate, I think I agree with Pelosi at this point considering how long it will take to unravel the right wing word jumble and try to get impeachment before the election. Instead they should focus on making it known they need to flip the senate so that impeachment can happen in case trump is re-elected, and also use investigations to show his corruption and lies to make sure any of the idiots that were giving him a chance know he is more corrupt than any politician we have. Keep the shackles waiting for when he gets voted out of office and we can try him in court.
Which Mueller found in spades. You're just dancing around a word, perfectly following the Trump White House's gaslighting campaign.
With his recent public 'rant,' Mueller revealed in addition to his major fail on most levels that he's just a partisan hack.
1. had one chief task (recommend to his masters at DOJ whether or not to bring charges), and failed.
2. effectively rigged the 2018 midterms, if it turns out (as now appears to be the case) that he knew there was no collusion within months of beginning.
3. wrote a report that effectively said 'no prosecution but btw here's over 200 pages of garbage' which apparently was fueled by his or his team's hatred of Trump, although the garbage (all very bad allegations imo) was in no way responsive to finding of conspiracy or collusion with Russia, was in no way in furtherance of his main task (determine whether or not to recommend prosecution), and was internally contradictory (we will never have authority to charge him with stuff, but here's a list of stuff we'd theoretically consider charging him with if *did* have such authority).
4. acted as a publicist - holds a press conference to say "the report contains everything I have to say, I have nothing to say not already in the report, except yada yada," repeating the Comey farce, possibly even more egregiously (Hillary/Trump is evil but we won't go into his crimes except to say that he's awful, but nothing to see here from a criminal pov, except, um, pantsuit lady/orange man bad).
What an amazing shit-show - Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCabe, and now this pos Mueller. Fuck, compared to them Trump almost appears like a true-blue specimen of politician. Trump's a genuine ass, while all these phonies are trying to pretend they're not pieces of excrement.
Seriously? Of all the factors that went into 2018's historic Blue Wave election, the Russia investigation was of extremely minor significance. I can't see any votes changing because of "no collusion."
^A cloud hanging over the head of president, and a supposedly complicit GOP party, that POTUS was in a criminal conspiracy with our main nuclear rival to subvert a US election (and might still be Russia's "puppet")? A cloud that in fact turned out to be baseless, and wholly without any merit (and they might have already known it was baseless around same time investigation had begun).
Don't think you are reasonable.
It didn't turn out to be any of those things. 50 separate criminal acts were uncovered, all of them connected to Trump's companies and his campaign. The only thing we don't know is whether Trump was in on it, or just the dumbest stooge in history, used as an unwitting pawn by the US' enemies to do the greatest possible damage to America.
Exit polls say healthcare was the most important issue, by a wide margin. Opinions of Mueller and the Russia investigation were split very evenly on party lines. If there were people who voted for Democrats because they believed in "collusion" and now regret that vote, their number is too small to affect the outcome.
Does Judge Jeanine know you're plagiarising her bullshit?
When did it turn out to be baseless?
That wasn't in the report.
Hey, remember when the tinfoil-hat crowd said Hillary was a pedophile, or hung out with pedophiles, or whatever the fuck they were insisting on?
Guess who turns out to be into kiddie porn.
Colour me surprised.
What colour is that? Puke yellow-green?
Meanwhile, Manafort's headed for solitary at Rikers...
Too much law and order. Rikers is state.
Nonetheless, that's where he's headed.
(Apparently it's because he's awaiting state charges.)
Holy shit that's a lot of brain damage in one post. Does your family know you had a stroke?
Someone has been stealing @Dayton3 's stupid pills.
DOJ has made a deal with House Judiciary to turn over some of the underlying Mueller evidence. No details yet.
It seems Barr really does not want to be held in contempt of Congress.
I see it more as Barr is following his predicted path of trying to delay and stretch things out for as long as possible (he certainly wants this all to wait until after the 2020 election) so voters are don't get a full view of Trump's criminality and they can dismiss his crimes as old news.
The house judiciary committee is now dropping their case in exchange for "some" of the evidence. Clearly they will hide the worst of Trump's actions, and only dribble out mundane garbage. So in a few days they will have to start the whole process of subpoenaing and suing all over again.
The dems need to stick to their guns and keep fast tracking suing until Barr has a vourt order to turn the evidence of Trump's crimes over to Congress. Only then will the stupid games stop.
If all Barr wanted was to delay as long as possible, he would have made them go to court. The contempt vote hasn't been dropped, just put on hold. They can hold it over his head for more concessions, since it's obviously something he wants to avoid. I'm actually surprised, I didn't think he would care about contempt since it's pretty much toothless. He might soon end up in contempt anyway over the census, but that's a different topic.
Foreign intervention in the electoral process remains okay for some.
Pompeo declared at the weekend that the US should intervene in UK politics to prevent a Corbyn government. Barely a peep in the media.
I do notice a definite split in the way Pompeo's comments are being portrayed in mainstream versus left-wing sources.
EDIT: I should include Russia Today, which is not strictly a left-wing source, but often amplifies leftist points of view critical of the United States.
"We won’t wait for him to do those things to begin to push back."
Sounds a pretty clear declaration of intent to interfere to me.
Okay, how? What "active measures" will they employ?
Keep in mind this is still the Trump administration, whose attitude toward Russian interference has been blasé to say the least.
He didn't list any methods, but given past record, threats by the US to interfere in foreign elections should hardly be regarded as less than serious.
Separate names with a comma.