Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by 14thDoctor, Oct 21, 2015.
Gee. That would make the Palestinians war criminals, since they call for the destruction of all Jews and constantly try to carry it out by indiscriminately punishing random Jews to satisfy their blood lust.
“To attack Jews is anti-Semitism, but an outright attack on the state of Israel is also anti-Semitism. There may be political disagreements between governments and on political issues, but the state of Israel has every right to exist in safety and prosperity.”
— Pope Francis, meeting at the Vatican with officials of the World Jewish Congress.
So here we come back full circle to my original point that both sides commit actions that are wrong, but the Israeli actions are far worse than the Palestinian's actions because: a) the Israelis are the aggressors, and; b) their effects are far, far more harmful in terms of the damage to and destruction of people's lives.
And there is a key difference here between the two sides of the debate. No one ever says 'wouldn't it be great if Hamas rockets killed more Israeli civilians' or tries to deny that such actions are wrong, but on the other side we see equivocation, deflection, whataboutery, misrepresentation, calumnies and outright lies to try and deny that Israel does anything wrong, as you have so expertly shown in this thread.
Lies, they are building on government owned land in territories they administer so no one has had anything stolen. That it does put pressure on the terrorist supporting Arab criminals who always refuse peace then so much the better. They deserve it and the biggest problem is Israel is far to kind to them.
On a related note just yesterday in California we had a Palestinian "refugee" go ape shit on a UC campus where he stabbed three people before being shot by police. He was supposedly pissed off about getting kicked out of a study group for failing to do his work and pull his own weight.
Given the dozens and dozens of Palestinian attack recently in Israel I think it is very fair to say they have a culture of violence and these bruts do not belong around civilized people.
What arrant nonsense. I would ask to back it up but we've all seen how incapable you are of that. Instead let's ask that famous anti-Semite Moshe Dayan for his view:
Noted Anti-Zionist says he does not like Israel. That is his right and you will notice Israel's let him do that. Now, if an Arab speaks out in any way against the barbarism of his fellow Arabs he gets assassinated plus his whole family gets killed. Further more if you are in Gaza and involved in politics but not a Hamas member then they throw you off the top of the tallest building. They have done that to hundreds of people.
Palestinians are completely undeserving of any consideration what so ever, at all. Their repeated rejection of peace and their preference to continue trying to "drive the Jews into the sea" means treating them like dog shit is not only just but we'll deserved.
You do know who Moshe Dayan was, right?
And of course, you've nothing to say about what he said.
Hamas not only throws Fatah mbers off 15 story buildings they also throw gays and people they accuse (without trial) of collaboration with Israel off of buildings. They are the official one party state goverent of Gaza so these are official government acts.
I have nothing but contempt for these "people" as well as their enablers who are the general populous of Gaza. If they all died the world would be a better place and I would not cry for them any more then I would cry over Nazis or their enablers being killed. That is simply justice.
Israel is so completely morally superior to them in every way when I see someone attack Israel yet always give the Arabs free passes, well, the best I can say is they are stupid people and more likely they are deliberate liars.
Israeli military hero? Lost an eye when a bullet his his binoculars? Lauded for the Six Day War? Later criticized for the Yom Kippur War?
Later an Israeli cabinet minister?
Of course this is Israel. Completely surrounded. Incredibly outnumbered by people who hate it yet in the west considered the "bully".
You can't swing a dead cat in Tel Aviv without hitting a war hero.
Dinner coats the E-IDF's 'equivocation, deflection, whataboutery, misrepresentation, calumnies and outright lies' with his usual appalling racism.
That's the one.
You'll notice his very clear and forthright views on how Israel came to be and who it was taken from, and how they contradict the nonsense put forward by you and Dinner in this thread.
So can you explain how Israel got occupied by Muslims? Were they invited in? How did they take over the Temple Mount? Do you really believe Mohammed road a flying horse to Jerusalem?
The 7th century? Really? That's how far back you want to go?
I believe it was Barack Obama who invited them in to spite evangelical Christians who cling to their guns and religion.
Going two steps back is not something the "always blame the Jews" people were ever good at. According to them the world began with the creation of Israel and the Jews are to blame for everything.
Then they cry when people suspect they are antisemitic.
A total badass?
Netanyahu is an idiot. He'd blame the Palestinians for everything from Yellow Fever to Justin Bieber. I mean, technically speaking if you want to get super specific, I believe the "inventor" of what became the holocaust in Germany was Himmler, and even Hitler thought Himmler had a few bolts loose.
I thought I would through this here:
Notice how the "EU Working Definition of Antisemetism" includes excessive or unfair criticism of Israel for things other countries do but which the sayers either does not criticise those other countries or does not criticise to the same degree. Double standards are specifically listed as a form of Antisemetism.
@Inútil , @RickDeckard
So, yes using either the official US or EU definitions some of you are indeed guilty of antisemitism.
As you've been told, there is no double standard toward the state of Israel. Atrocities against a civilian population and territorial expansionism is unacceptable from any state. That is in fact the official position of both the US and EU as well - they just refuse to apply it in practice.
Of course, the US and EU can say that the sky is green if they like, but that won't make it so. Anti-semitism is prejudice against Jews - nothing more.
Examples of the double standards have clearly been listed. For example the Geneva Convention requires countries to take measures to try to prevent civilian casualities yet the anti Israeli, anti semetic groups always demand no civilian casualities by Israel which is clearly a different standard then they hold any other nation too.
An even worse antisemitic smear was when Inutil claim Israel deliberately killed civilians. Without question that was an antisemitic smear under both the EU and US definitions.
Israel is indiscriminate in its targetting and apathetic towards resulting civilian casualties. This is documented in innumerable reports conducted by international human rights groups examining Israels wars. I suggest that you read them.
Rick, you are welcome to have an irrational emotional response of neg repping me but that doesn't change the fact that under both the EU and US official legal definitions both you and Inutil are guilty of antisemitism.
I suggest you review what motivates your animus towards the Jewish state.
Can you link to any of these reports? And are they from truly unbiased human rights groups (Amnesty International is not one of these)?
Because lots of the supposed "reports of atrocities" routinely come up with stuff like "Israeli occuping Palestinian land is an atrocity" or "We can only get access to analyze Israeli actions because we can stay in a comfortable hotel room in Tel Aviv to do our work but going into the West Bank or Gaza means venturing into the hell holes of Palestinian territory.
Are you nuts? And as a side note, almost all international human rights groups are more anti-Semitic than the average Nazi party member was.
I despair at what you might consider "unbiased", Dayton. The fact that you load the question in such a way is more evidence of what we know already - you consider it "biased" to criticise Israel in the first place. Therefore by circular logic there can be no such unbiased report.
Even the Pope says criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic.
There can be sources which are at least reasonably unbiased.
The Economist is one if you want one. U.S. News & World Report was okay in the print edition. Not sure the current online edition. In regards to Middle Eastern issues I think FoxNews is the most unbiased of the news networks.
Foreign Affairs and Foreign Policy magazines were pretty reasonable as well.
Separate names with a comma.