Discussion in 'The Help Desk' started by Elwood, Jun 20, 2007.
Not I. I care about most everyone's opinion. Except faisent. Fuck that assclown.
I dont believe you. Not that it matters
Yeah, you're right. I like faisent. I can't help it. I think it's the hair.
Close your eyes and wish real hard Nick and maybe everyone will forget everything.
Or maybe we're complaining because of the bizarreness of WF's personal information rule, it's seemingly gone from being "personal information is such a serious matter that you'll be permabanned if there's even a slight chance that you might someday in the future reveal anything" to "if you actually threaten someone with personal information during a troll all you'll get is a week long timeout."
It was a big screw up, and now it's done. However, I think WF will be just fine. I am giving Elwood and Co. the benefit of the doubt for several reasons. One of them is that I believe Elwood won't make that same mistake again. Mistakes do happen, I'm fully aware of that, some bad junk went down, and now there's a real chance to get things fixed. I think Elwood can do it, I have confidence in how he has ran the board up to this point. This recent issue does not cast aside the good job he's done before that. Otherwise, what's the point in caring, or even owning a board? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that this board will fix it's problems, and move forward. So let's just take this one step at a time. It is, after all, far easier to destroy something than it is to rebuild.
The problem is I don't think that anyone on staff sees the Goldeneye banning as a mistake and if his pre-emptive kicking, one of the issues at the heart of this seemingly neverending shitstorm isn't recognized as such then what real hope is there of things getting fixed?
When you get down to the core of everything, it has to be understood that if Elwood wants to do it, he can. We're all guests at his convenience. Now, Elwood has already talked about how he cares for this community, and that's what it is. Look, you're not going to agree with everything that is said and done. But if Elwood feels he should pre-emptively ban someone, then that is what he feels. I have pre-emptively banned one person in my time running my little board, because I felt the pros of that poster being there were far outweighed by the cons. And I stand by that decision. Was it wrong? Maybe to some. Do I think it was wrong? No. Remember, the Admin sees things that posters and even moderators don't see. The Admin has the large map of what's going on and is usually more informed about situations.
Does that make the Admin always right? Most certainly not, but it does mean that all decisions ultimately rest on him/her/them. We can contribute as posters, but even though we can get emotionally attached, when all is said and done, it's still not our board. If Elwood decided to close up shop tomorrow, he could do it by the click of a mouse and that would be the end of it, at least here. There would be fragments elsewhere, but it would never be Wordforge again. The point I'm making is that it is best to enjoy the board, the community, and the friendships you have here. It's a great home for a lot of people, and a great place to visit for others. I think Elwood is fair, overall. I'm willing to work through the storms to enjoy the sunshine.
Not all of us drag this shit out in public, ya know.
and Wordforge has a history of its members getting riled up and demanding change when the owner does something they deem questionable.
I really wouldn't have that much of a problem with a pre-emptive banning if the reasoning for it was honestly presented and with the "punishment" from Storm's troll being so light and GE's continued lack of interest in posting anything problematic over at TK I have my doubts about the reasoning behind his banning really being that he posed too much of a risk.
It's too bad that certain people on staff didn't share in that philosophy two years ago.
I understand what you're saying but because some of the people who are calling for the drama to end are some of the same people who were stirring the pot til it exploded in Borgs' face awhile back I find it very difficult to just sit back and let questionable decisions slide by without making some sort of comment.
Keep banging that drum.
I'm the one who had to pull the lever on GE and I didn't particularly like it. I believed it would be a temporary measure.
I think both he and CM should be unbanned so the board can give them what they really deserve for their garbage.
But it's Elwood's board. We are here at his invitation and yes we form a community, but this isn't a socialist experiment and we don't own the property. If he doesn't want them here..just because he doesn't want them here, it's his right. Whether any of us agree or not.
Just like it's your right to go to TK and make a fuss. But I can guarentee you that this board isn't going to be run from TK and whatever is being said there is not going to be paid any attention to.
You know, I bet Elwood is supposed to be one of them. If that is how you treat friends, it's far better to be on your "non-entity" list.
Actually, we did.
The only reason Borgs sold in the end is because he didn't want to be left holding the empty Wordforge bag if we opened HavenBBS.
He never wanted to be responsible and did everything he could to avoid it. It would be hard to avoid if his entire staff walked because they were sick of it.
And even so he was still an Administrator until he decided to go completely bat shit.
From what I know (and I'll admit most of my knowledge is secondhand obtained from a few swapped e-mails) the staff are far from the saving graces that some like to portray them as. They did something alright, but it certainly wasn't swooping in to save the place from an unhinged and slightly unstable owner.
and it would probably go a long way towards solving this mess if Elwood just came out and said "they aren't here because I don't wan't them do be" instead of using a rule that Storm's troll proved to be utterly hollow.
What exactly made you think that we would all run over to Havenbbs just because Elwood opened such a place?
Indeed they have. The U.S. has a history of her people rising up and demanding change when the government does something they deem questionable. Sometimes change is made, sometimes it's not. The difference is that in the U.S., a citizen has a right to demand that change, whereas on a message board, it's completely subjective to the Administration.
It all boils down to what Elwood feels is best. I can disagree until I'm blue in the face, but it solves nothing if Elwood does not want to budge. That is his right, as Administrator and Owner.
Well, philosophies vary. Over at my board (not trying to hawk my board, just giving an example), you can talk all day until the cows come home about me, the board, whether you like it or not, and I don't mind, until you start lying about people or threatening real bodily harm. Then I get in my "it's time to resolve this" mode. Some Admins are more lax, others are more strict. Either way, here it's Elwood's decision, on my board it's my decision, and the decision of the other Admins (we have 6).
True, but I'm not one of them. I truly want peace for the board. There will always be some kind of conflict, but an overall peace is healthy. If we always look back in the past at what happened before, nothing will ever be resolved and old wounds will fester. It's time to move forward and drop what happened years ago. Heal this wound and move forward.
Here's the thing: What do those who are complaining hope to gain here? Storm rebanned? An apology from Elwood? Or some sort of agreement that They Were Right All Along? Is this about these bans or the order in which they were unbanned, or is this about the vidication of a particular point of view for what seems to be a handful of people?
I'm just not sure what the is supposed to be accomplishing at this point. I wonder if even those who are complaining have a clear idea anymore.
I don't think vindication is a valid goal at this point, I'm not entirely sure myself, although I do understand the disparity in perception between Admin & member. It has been made clear, however, by Elwood that how he is perceived is not very important to him. That is understandable. An owner/Admin can't always go by what is popular, and has to make the decisions they think are best. It is the nature of message boards like this one.
Maybe they wouldn't have. But it was the risk we were willing to take.
I think, given the history, I'd be more worried if Wordforge members got along well with whoever is the admin du jour. And Elwood's right - he couldn't possibly run this place effectively if he tried to make everyone happy. It's even understandable that some people won't like the decisions and want to argue with them. Eventually, though, the arguing just becomes bitching.
So why should board policy arguments differ from any other arguments on wordforge?
^ Fair point, I guess. Maybe it's just that it's all over the entire board?
When doesn't it? You have been out of the loop for a while, fella!
Dammit Mark...whoever made your av forgot to fill in the eyelids and it drives my sense of balance nuts!
There we go. Problem solved.
Now take it before Tamar's eye starts twitching and my baseball bat arm starts hitting people with a baseball bat.
For someone who's always telling the world How Things Should Be, you're awfully quick to mock when someone else does it.
KIRK1ADM is back?
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