Question For Your Consideration

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Lanzman, May 9, 2019.

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Picnic: Racist or Not?

  1. Racist!

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    0.0%
  2. Not Racist!

    85.0%
  3. Teh Baba!

    15.0%
  1. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    Sounds...fun
  2. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    When I worked at NRL in the late 80s a bunch of the guys (grown-ass men, to boot) played the circle game.

    If you're one of the easily outraged, the circle game is a white power symbol because you saw it on the internet and therefore it must be true. Just like "picnic" is a racist code word. Just like vaccines cause autism.

    People are stupid.
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  3. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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    :facepalm: The circle game is not a white power symbol. The white power symbol is the white power symbol, because that is how people are using it. Getting people to defend it because "wink wink, nudge nudge, circle game" is part of the plan.

    Tell me, who was the baseball fan going to punch? Who was the Christchurch shooter going to punch when he flashed the sign in court?
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  4. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    We played it in the military as well. I'm also curious how this fans background on social media was "uncovered" seeing as how his identity has been kept secret by the Cubs.

    Don't forget that "Baby it's cold outside" became sexist more than 70 years after it was released.

    And the stupid people who find this hand gesture offensive...

    [​IMG]

    ...are the reason the far left will never be taken seriously.
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  5. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    Yeah, it's you. You're stupid. Because you refuse to recognize that language evolves over time, and that words and symbols and gestures can take on new meanings. :shrug:
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  6. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    You mean the Coast Guard? And Chicago Cubs? :chris:
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  7. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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    It's actually very much along the same lines as picnic. We all agree that the origin of the word/gesture is not racist. We all have used the word/gesture without meaning to convey any kind of racist message. Then somebody thought it would be funny to make up a fake racist meaning for the common word/gesture and troll people with it. If people with racist intentions started using "pick-a-nig" to convey a racist message, we would have to accept that there was now an additional racist meaning to the word. Likewise with the finger circle gesture, to which there is now an additional racist meaning. It definitely does not mean that all previous uses of the OK signal or circle game are retroactively turned racist.

    @T.R are you saying there can never be any racist usage of that particular gesture? No matter how many times racists use it in a racist way, it just doesn't count for some reason?
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  8. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Aw, c'mon, @Quest. You know that language is etched in stone and immutable. Consider the word "nice," for one: https://www.etymonline.com/word/nice. Its meaning has remained inalterable in the 500 years since it was first used. :sroll:
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  9. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

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    I need a fag so I can start a campfire. What?:ramen:
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  10. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    no
    you need a faggot
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  11. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    See, this is exactly the sort of thing that makes people believe you're a child. :shrug:
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  12. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Okay, this has all the makings of an urban legend. "An office somewhere," which could be anywhere or nowhere because it doesn't exist. "Flip" is, apparently a slur for Filipino, but I've no idea how common it might be, as I'd never heard of it until your post.

    Let's shift this a little bit, say that you heard that someone in an office somewhere had banned the use of the word "casino" because Trump owns casinos and they didn't want the discussion to turn to politics. Would you believe it? Remember, we're not saying that the person who banned the word was opposed to Trump, merely that they didn't want discussions in the office to turn to politics. (Which, regardless of where you might be on the political spectrum, I think you can see some of the logic behind that. Ya gotta work with these people, and the last thing you really want to deal with when you're trying to get them to sign their damned TPS cover sheet is hearing them ramble on about what they saw on Fox/Maddow last night, am I right?) Personally, I'd find that hard to believe. YMMV.

    If this story is true, I would think that the person who issued the ban could best be described as a "well-meaning idiot." Someone who doesn't actually know any Filipinos, and is acting out of an abundance of caution. Remember that DC comptroller who had to resign because he used the word "niggardly"? Absolutely not a racist term, if you're familiar with the word. If you're not, and the clip of him saying it is being promoted by sensationalist media (and they're pretty much all sensationalist at times), then you're going to think he's being a racist. If you're someone who's educated on the origins of the term, and who also knows the story of the comptroller, you're probably going to be careful about dropping it into casual conversation (assuming the word would be part of your normal vocabulary to begin with). After all, I think we can all agree that if we're at work, trying to convey work-related information about how incorporating the hooteramus with the framus device is going we want people to focus on that, and not something else, so we wouldn't be inclined to use the word "fuckstick" in such a conversation. (Granted, there are times when that's the best word, but you'd also know the room and know if someone was likely to be offended by such a term.)
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  13. K.

    K. Sober

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    Sounds to me like a bunch of racist assholes were ganging up on a Filipino colleague and their boss stepped in.

    "What? I was going to say 'chart'. Hey, Danilo, you don't mind me mentioning that flip.... CHART, right? Can talk about that flip.... CHART all day long, nothing wrong with that!"

    Boss: "Cut it out. Now." *leaves office

    "Oh man, that's so dumb. Now my boss has banned the word flipchart, because it's RACIST! Let me get on Facebook and tell everyone how dumb she is!"
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  14. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    I’m seriously dubious it ever happened.
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  15. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    So, you didn't tell me, how do you feel when you have a few drinks with your buddies?
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  16. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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    Thinking it over, I can see the value of the circle game in a military unit. Childish as it may seem, it trains them to be constantly on guard and ready for action at any moment. There is absolutely no racism or racist meaning associated with the circle game in any way. We all get that. Nobody is going to call you a racist because you played the circle game well into adulthood.

    If it pisses you off that White Nationalists have taken your circle game gesture and used it for a nefarious purpose, good! We should all be angry about what they are doing to our society. But it makes more sense to be angry with them, not those of us who are pointing it out to you.
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  17. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    ... which an Englishman could light with a fag.
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  18. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

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    Why, because you can't take a joke?
  19. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    No, because your "joke" shows you clearly understand how words and symbols and gestures can have different meanings depending on context, but you still deny it when it gives you a chance to "own the libs." We all see what you're doing. :shrug:
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  20. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    Indeed, it was an extremely self defeating post.
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  21. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    It's the old alt-right fallback. Call one of 'em out for racism and he'll tell you you're the racist. :unuts:
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  22. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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    A lot of people are understandably nervous about being accused of racism over something they thought was a harmless prank. That could make them susceptible to propaganda that tells them, "See, white man? You'll always be labeled an evil racist no matter how hard you try. Might as well join us, we're the only ones looking out for you."

    As you can see, the White Nationalists are at both ends of this. They introduced the racist meaning of the gesture, which they then use to create a reaction that drives people closer to their position. Truly insidious. :mad:
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  23. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    The funny/sad part is that if old white dudes spent half the energy on not being racist that they spend on fear of being called racist, the problem would take care of itself.
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  24. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

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    Okay.
    [​IMG]
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  25. K.

    K. Sober

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    You know, if there was a game that by tradition had you exclaim "Heil Hitler!" every so often, but would work just as well with literally any other sound, I'm thinking people might develop a version that uses a different phrase at this point, if they didn't absolutely want to cause offense more than anything else.
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  26. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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    True, the letters B I N G O were much less controversial.
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  27. Quest

    Quest Did you bring your handcuffs? Staff Member Administrator

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    "Thank you" reps are for those who shared their experience of playing the circle
    game in the military. I honestly didn't realize that was a thing because I hadn't encountered the game since 6th-8th grade and that was a time when getting randomly punched for various reasons was just a part of daily life. :oath:
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  28. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    Remind me when this picture was taken?
  29. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

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    I don’t know.
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  30. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

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    Seems pretty crucial to its' import, we can doubtless find many pictures of black people (and white) innocently doing the "OK" gesture before it gained its' current significance.

    A similar argument could be used for the word "gay". Once upon a time it exclusively meant "happy, flamboyant". If we don't look at the context that means an awful lot of people are being wrongly referred to as homosexual throughout history, not to mention becoming temporarily homosexual whilst drinking and watching football.
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