Roman Descendants Found in China?

Discussion in 'Techforge' started by Zodiac, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    When I was in college, one professor discussed a bit of tangential history. When he got to the one about whites invading India, he said he "didn't like the idea of whites being involved in the development of every civilization."

    My good sir, that shit is most tough.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/02/wroman02.xml


    The very likely answer is that these people are the mixed descendants of the White Tocharians and closely related peoples, ancient distant relatives of the Celts, who survived into the 7th century AD. Practicing, at different points, shamanism, solar faith similar to Persian Zoroastrianism and "Angel worship," Buddhism, Christian Nestorianism and Manichaeism, they and their civilization were eventually crushed by Turkic and Chinese incursions, something left out of potted histories of imperialism. Their mummified dead have long puzzled archaeologists.

    By the early 1990s, over a thousand Nordic corpses had been uncovered from the graveyards the Wapu region; but by 1998, the Chinese government had halted further archaeological expeditions to the area, quite likely for fear of exposing yet more ancient European faces to the world. The discovery of the White mummies has served to highlight their racial and ethnic differences from the Chinese and the issue has become a political hot potato for that country's government. Trolled by ancient whites...

    Pwned!
  2. Aurora

    Aurora Vincerò!

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    What's the problem? Romans were pretty much everywhere by the first century :shrug:

    Here's a map of trade routes. The only mystery is, why aren't there more Roman remains in rather exotic places. Additionally, this map makes you think about how many slaves it took ... there was no proper Suez Canal back then, and the Sinai is about as close to hell you can get on this planet.

    [​IMG]

    Oh wait.

    That thread wasn't about that, was it. Oops, my bad.
  3. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    Apology accepted.
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  4. LizK

    LizK Sort of lurker

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    Heck, with DNA testing and other data (names and speech) some have stated to have found some of the missing tribes of Israel in China, India and other sites.
  5. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Geez, that guy sounds like he has an agenda. History is about what happened (to the extent you can recover it), not about what you would like or not like to have happened.

    Reminds me of how the Nazis rejected Relativity as "Jewish science" or how the Soviets rejected modern genetics because of their political preconceptions. Or, for that matter, how Galileo was prosecuted for expressing ideas contrary to Church doctrine.

    Indeed.

    Chinese civilization was already well-established (more than 1,000 years) by the time Roman civilization arose, so it wouldn't necessarily mean that whites made substantial contributions to it simply because they lived in some remote region of China during ancient times. But who knows what historians will find if they dig into the subject...

    Also, I forget the name (and a quick Wiki search didn't help me find it), but I believe there is a small population of "white" people who live in northern Japan as well.
  6. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    The buried white mummies are forcing a reexamination of old Chinese books that describe historical or legendary figures of great height, with deep-set blue or green eyes, long noses, full beards, and red or blond hair. Scholars have traditionally scoffed at these accounts, but it now transpires that these accounts may have been correct.

    Ainu. But AFAIK, genetic testing has revealed nothing that makes them closer to whites than the Japanese.
  7. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Fascinating. I've always enjoyed the little historic irony that the United States and the Soviet Union both owed their existence partly to Vikings (the Americans to the Normans who brought their legal system to Britain, the Russians to Varangians who ruled over the Rus). Wouldn't it be interesting if Vikings (who would fit the description you gave) played some role in the early history of China as well?

    Ah, perhaps that's it then. The description I heard of them as being "white" may have been something of an exagerration.
  8. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    IIRC the Varangians themselves were known as the Rus.

    As for other history, well... there are theories which are rather un-PC as to just how prolific the Nordic people were. I can get into them if you like. Some are so "extreme" that they claim Egypt, at its zenith, was primarily a Nordic civilization, but I wouldn't be getting into that one. All of them, however, are based on some compelling evidence.


    It isn't at all. The similarities are striking but are merely parallel, apparently.
  9. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    It's been a while since I read Russian history, but I think the Varangians were a Germanic people from Scandinavia (hence, Vikings) and the Rus were a Slavic people. (Edit: Wikipedia seems to confirm this.)

    If you have some you think worth telling, fire away.

    That would be a little hard to believe. I believe that a recent DNA study showed that modern Egyptians (despite occupation by Persia, dominance by Macedonian Greeks, and conquest by Arabs) are pretty much the same genetically as ancient Egyptians. That takes all the wind out of the sails of the Afro-Centric position that ancient Egyptians were more like Sub-Saharan Africans...

    Interesting. Kinda like the Thylacine (now-extinct wolf-like marsupials formerly found on Tasmania) and a dog looking very much alike but being separated by a great distance on the animal family tree...
  10. LizK

    LizK Sort of lurker

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    I think those are the ones that the Japanese call "inu" (dog). Try that in wiki.
    And they live, IIRC, on the northern most island.
  11. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    Let's see...

    The Gaunches of the Canary Islands - this region became home to a mysterious group of Nordics who became known as the Guanches.

    While it is unknown for sure how they arrived on the islands, what is known is that they shared a number of cultural characteristics with the ancient Egyptians and that their building style appears to have been replicated in South and Central America.

    The finest evidence of what these original Guanche Nordics looked like, is in the fortuitous existence of original Guanche mummies, which are on public display in that island group's national museum. The corpses on display are estimated to be between 600 and 1000 years old.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Guanche mummies, with red hair and other Nordic features - the original inhabitants of the Canary Islands.

    An examination of one of the mummies' bodies showed incisions that virtually matched those found in Egyptian mummies, although the string used by the Guanche embalmers to close the wounds was much coarser than would have been used by the Egyptian experts. The Guanches also possessed the art of writing.

    However, the most stunning link between the Guanches and the Egyptians comes in the form of pyramids - the Guanches built several small step pyramids on the islands, using exactly the same model as those found in ancient Egypt and in Mesopotamia. The pyramids have an east-west alignment which also indicates that they probably had a religious purpose, associated with the rise and setting of the sun.

    Carefully built stairways on the west side of each pyramid lead up to the summit, which in each case has a flat platform covered with gravel, possibly used for religious or ceremonial purposes.

    Guanche:

    [​IMG]

    Mayan:

    [​IMG]

    The famous explorer, Thor Heyerdahl, who 'rediscovered' the pyramids on the Canary Islands and who set up an academic body to study the phenomena, argued that the pyramids may be remains from explorers who sailed the Atlantic in ancient times, and who may have possibly forged a link with the pre-Columbian civilizations of the Americas.

    As the original inhabitants of the Canary Islands were fair-haired and bearded, it was possible, Heyerdahl suggested, that long before the 15th Century, people of the same stock as those who settled the Canary Islands, also sailed the same route along the Canary Current that took Christopher Columbus to the Americas.

    This theory formed the basis of Heyerdahl's famous RA expeditions in which he showed that is was possible to cross the Atlantic in an Egyptian reed boat.

    In fact Columbus' starting off point was the Canary Islands, where he obtained supplies and water on Gomera, the island next to Tenerife. The Guanches on Tenerife in 1492 did not permit Columbus to land on their island - they were not impressed by the physical appearance of the bearded Europeans, who looked like the Guanches themselves.

    When Columbus and the Europeans who followed in his wake landed in the Americas, they were welcomed and initially worshiped as gods, since the beardless Indians they encountered believed that the Spanish belonged to the same people as the legendary founders of their civilization, bearded men from across the Atlantic Ocean.

    According to the Aztec and Olmec legends, their god, Quetzalcoatl, had Nordic features (eyes and hair color) and a beard. This "god" came from over the sea and taught the Amerinds how to raise corn and build structures.

    There is indeed a marked similarity between the step pyramids to be found on the Canary Islands and those to be found in Central and South America, strongly suggesting yet another great lost white migration, this time to Central and South America, perhaps a thousand years or more before Columbus.

    There is also clear evidence from the Mexican side of the Atlantic Ocean that Whites - blond-haired whites - reached that part of the world long before the Spanish explorations of the late 1490s.

    Below is a pre-Columbian wall painting which can be found in the Temple of the Warriors, Chichen Itza, on the east coast of Mexico. The first depicts white prisoners after their capture by the dark-skinned natives, and the second, shows a white man with long blond hair being sacrificed by non-Whites. It is worthwhile to remember that these paintings date from BEFORE Christopher Columbus sailed the Atlantic in 1492.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The wall painting above has been reconstructed as an actual scene (image below) and is on display at the Parque Etnografico, the museum set up on the Canary Islands around the site of the pyramids which is open to the public.

    [​IMG]

    Guanche artifacts, such as cave murals, tombs, stone and mortar walls, broken pottery and other everyday items are abundant on the island. Similar artifacts have been found on the African continent itself - notably in Morocco, indicating that at some stage the Guanches crossed the sea to Africa. There they started mixing with Arabic and other non-white racial types on the African continent itself. This process is very likely to be the cause of some flashes of blond hair and light colored eyes still to be found amongst the Berber population of north west Africa to this day.

    The pyramids and other structures on the islands seem to have been constructed by an advanced people - certainly by the time of the Spanish invasion, the Guanches had lost much of their civilized apparel, and Spanish accounts have it that they were attacked by naked tribesmen, who sometimes inflicted serious military defeats upon the invading Spaniards. It was only in 1496 that the Spaniards finally defeated the last of the Guanches.

    The arrival of the White Spanish in the mid 14th Century saw the remaining Nordic Guanches absorbed into the new settler population. The blond, blue-eyed, tall stock has been preserved in part, and can still be seen today in many individuals on the island. Culturally speaking, the Guanche civilization was completely absorbed by the imported continental European culture, so that the Canary Islands remains Spanish territory to this day.

    Could you show me some of those studies? I have stuff to say about them, too (The ancient Egyptians).

    That's more of a case of analogous development in a large ecological niche, but you're point is understood. And I was incorrect when I stated that Ainu aren't related to the Japanese; they aren't as close as you would expect, which has led to a lot of speculation concerning their origins.
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  12. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    A writer named Graham Hancock has done some work that makes a compelling case for pre historical links between a number of civilizations, including Egypt and the builders of Angkor Wak.

    There is also a huge debate over the age of the Egyptian Sphinx. A highly respected geologist named Robert Shocke (sp?) set off shock waves by venturing into Archaeological territory and suggesting that it may be 10 thousand or more years older than currently accepted based on what he see as weathering erosion that would not be consistent with weather patterns until you go back at least 10 thousand years.

    You might also look up the Yonaguni Monuments off Okinawa, which are under several fathoms of water and which Hancock argues were built by an "advanced" pre historic civilization. Shocke disagrees saying it is the result of natural erosion. Take a look and see for yourself.

    The earlier poster is correct: the calendars that we accept as more or less a roadmap of pre-history may in fact be all fucked up!

    Somehow this pleases the anarchist in me....
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  13. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    Good. Without people to shake up established theory once in a while, humanity wouldn't advance whatsoever.
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  14. Sherlock Holmes

    Sherlock Holmes Fresh Meat

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    This is really interesting...

    I got laughed at back in sixth grade when I said that I thought that there had to have been a major nation state in existance that had a level of technological development prior to the "starter nations" we were learning about at the time.

    That the Myth of atlantis, is a corrupted oral tale of this once global power. A power destroied by a combination of political and social conflect. It got too large to be controled, slaves rebelled, ect...


    My teacher told me that that couldn't be possible, because "nothing pointed to that", and went on to just tell me we didn't have the time to "argue" the point when I started to bring up the spynix, easter island statues, stone henge, (and the various other Stone works around the globe in places like New England.) And the common thread of pyrmiad building...





    Please go on, this is really cool.
  15. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    Compiling......
  16. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    This might not be what you expected, but here it is:

    Although situated in North Africa, Egypt had been settled by three White groupings prior to 3500 BC, namely Old European Mediterranean types, Proto-Nordics and Nordic Indo-Europeans, with the latter group penetrating the territory as part of the great wave of Indo-European invasions which took place from 5600 BC onwards.

    Living in typical Neolithic settlements, this period of history is called the pre-dynastic period and is formally considered to have come to an end in 3100 BC.

    Racially speaking, the inhabitants of Egypt at this period in time were divided into three groups. Skeletal evidence from grave sites show that the original White Mediterraneans and Proto-Nordics were in a majority in the area - a well preserved body found in a sand grave in Egypt dating from approximately 3000 BC, on display in the British Museum in London, has even been nicknamed "Ginger" because of his red hair - a racial trait only found in persons of Nordic ancestry.

    However, diggings also reveal a significant minority of Semitic (Arabic) peoples were living in the Nile Delta valley alongside the Whites, and in the very far south (in what later became southern Egypt and the Sudan) lived a large number of Blacks. These were the Nubians who were to feature in Egypt's history - and against whom the Egyptians waged war and enslaved for nearly 2,000 years.

    The existence of these two non-White groupings within Egypt was later to have a major impact on the history of that civilization, and also do much to destroy the 'environmental' theory of the origin of civilizations, as all three groups shared the same environment, yet produced very different levels of achievement.

    In terms of contemporary time frames, however, the Egyptian state first started formally emerging shortly after the establishment of the civilization between the Tigris and Euphrates river valley. But, by the year 3100 BC, a measure of unity had started to take hold in Egypt, coalescing into northern and southern kingdoms. Around that year a dynamic leader named Menes united these northern and southern kingdoms and established a capital city at Memphis on the Nile River. The year 3100 BC therefore marks the start of the Dynastic Period, called the Old Kingdom by historians.

    Menes developed the idea of using channels to divert the waters of the Nile to irrigate land - and this irrigation system exists along the Nile River to this day. Menes was such a gifted and charismatic leader that he was later deified by later Egyptians, and a cult developed which pictured him as a direct descendant of the Gods, a tradition which then spread to other pharaohs.

    It is very likely that the very word "man" originated with Menes.

    During the reign of Menes, construction was first started on the greatest city of ancient Egypt, Memphis, which became the capital of this first kingdom. Also about this time, Egyptian pictograph writing appeared, probably inspired by the Sumerian script. The Old Kingdom traded extensively with surrounding lands, obtaining wood from Lebanon and copper from mines in the Sinai peninsula.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The first great pyramid of Egypt: the step pyramid of Saqqara, circa 2600 BC. The architect, Imhotep, was later made into a deity out of respect for this technological achievement. The right: Part of the massive stone complex which surrounds the step pyramid.

    It was also during this Old Kingdom period that the great pyramids and Sphinx at Giza were built, starting around the year 2,500 BC. The project was launched by Pharaoh Cheops (also known as Khufu), who, because of the pyramids, remains one of the most famous pharaohs of this First Kingdom.

    [​IMG]
    Queen Hetop-Heres II, of the Fourth Dynasty, the daughter of Cheops, the builder of the great pyramid, is shown in the colored bas reliefs of her tomb to have been a distinct blonde. Her hair is painted a bright yellow stippled with little red horizontal lines, and her skin is white.

    The Cheops pyramids are however not the oldest Egyptian pyramids - the step pyramid at Memphis predates the Cheops pyramids by at least a century, and was designed by a court architect who was later to be deified by the Egyptians, Imhotep. This great structure, nearly 66 meters high, must have seemed overwhelming to ordinary Egyptians at the time, who at best lived in two story mud brick houses, and it is no surprise that the builder was eventually deified.

    [​IMG]

    The Cheops pyramids are impressive today. By the standards of the time of their construction they must also have appeared to be superhuman. Twenty years in the building, these pyramids used between five and six millions tons of stone, some blocks being moved over 500 miles, with virtually perfect masonry work on site so that the alignment variance of the stones even today is less than one percent. The greatest pyramid reaches 146 meters - higher than St. Peter's cathedral in Rome (Which remains the biggest Christian cathedral in the world.)
  17. Zodiac

    Zodiac Banned

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    The mummified remains of numerous pharaohs and common folk from this first great Egyptian civilization have unmistakable White features, while the first written reference to blond hair is made on an Egyptian wall painting of the daughter of the famous pharaoh Cheops, Queen Hetep-Heres II, who is identified specifically by her blond hair.

    The well preserved body of Pharaoh Ramses II has red hair, and there are large numbers of mummies whose blond hair has been extraordinarily well preserved through the centuries. This tradition of Nordic pharaohs was to last almost till the second part of the Third Kingdom, circa 1050 BC, by when racial demographic shifts had taken place in Egyptian society in favor of non-White groups.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Amenhotep III. Yuya's blond hair and Nordic facial structure have been well preserved by the embalming process; Alongside, his equally blond haired wife, Thuya, great grandmother of Tutankhamen.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Two pictures of a female mummy, on the left, taken in 2003, and on the right, taken in 1907. The mummy was one of three discovered in 1898 in a secret chamber of tomb KV35 by French archaeologist Victor Loret. The mummy, known as the "elder lady" has been identified either as Queen Hatshepsut, wife of Pharaoh Thutmosis II, who ruled Egypt after Thutmosis' death in 1520 BC; or as Queen Tiye. The older picture shows the mummy's hair to be a lot lighter than the 2003 picture.

    Egyptian art is also filled with racial images: slaves and enemies of Egypt are almost always depicted as Semites or Blacks (with one or two Nordic slaves thrown in - they are easily identified by not only their facial features but also by their depiction with blond hair). These slaves were probably captives from wandering Indo-European invaders who had the misfortune to fall into bondage in Egypt.

    [​IMG]

    Aside from the stupendous achievement of building the pyramids, the supposed white civilization of Egypt is credited with many achievements, some of which benefit to this day. The Egyptians were the first to divide the solar year into 365 and one quarter days and twelve months, each of three weeks of ten days long, with five extra days at the end of the year.

    The Egyptians also became famous for their medical skills, although the difference between magic and science does not appear to have been fully made. Evidence exists of advanced surgery having been carried out as far back as the First Kingdom, and many techniques and herbal remedies were taken over in toto by the Classical Greeks and survived right into medieval European times.

    Again, it's rather un-PC.
  18. Sherlock Holmes

    Sherlock Holmes Fresh Meat

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    How long befor people start yelling Nazi at the reaserchers that bring this up?