Seattle continues efforts to kill jobs...

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Volpone, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    Awhile back there was a Porkulus story about a failed "green jobs" program in Seattle. It didn't work because to get the money you had to pay workers $25 an hour, what Seattle bureaucrats decided was a "living wage", while the going rate for construction work was $14 an hour. IIRC, there was even a not wanting to be in a "race to the bottom" quote, rationalizing the higher pay.

    Well they're at it again. They've decided if you have a business with more than 4 employees, you need to give them paid sick leave. Why saddle businesses with additional costs to hiring people during historic unemployment? I'll let Mayor Mike McGinn explain that:
    :marathon:

    One wonders what "top" he is racing to? Highest unemployment?
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  2. Tamar Garish

    Tamar Garish Wanna Snuggle? Deceased Member

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    :bang:

    :edit:
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  3. mlong

    mlong Poking that old Liberal Bear

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    Sounds like typical Liberalism....pay people for not working...

    So an Employer not only has to pay someone whose out of work sick but then if they out long enough have to pay someone to do that person's job...paying 2 people for one job....yea Employers are going to rush to Seattle to set up shop. :rolleyes:
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  4. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Another example of policy that will hurt the very people it's supposed to help.

    :jayzus:

    And the "race to the bottom" comment is about as close to pure economic ignorance as you can get. The policymakers seem completely divorced from the reality that making employees more expensive is the fastest way to the bottom (since they'll be unemployed). Less expensive employees are more likely to be hired.
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  5. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    According to proponents when this was put in place by San Francisco a year later a poll of small business owners showed it had no effect on hiring and that by then most were in favor of it. IIRC most employees took less than half of their days as well.
  6. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    First off, most jobs in Seattle already have paid sick leave. Many of those that don't are service jobs that can't really leave.

    This is what kills me. If paid sick leave is a public health issue, why give Unions the right to bargain it away?
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  7. Tamar Garish

    Tamar Garish Wanna Snuggle? Deceased Member

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    Because Unions pad their election coffers, that's why. :mad:
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  8. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Here's the Times write up on it:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016188951_paidsickleave13m.html
  9. Bulldog

    Bulldog Only Pawn in Game of Life

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    I have 300 hours of sick time saved up. :banana:
  10. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    I love poking Ankles with a stick. :D

    Anyway, say you're unemployed. Say someone comes up to you and offers you $14 an hour for a relatively shitty job. After 6 months you qualify for relatively shitty insurance. But you don't get any paid vacation or sick time.

    Do you say "no thanks, I'll keep looking," or do you take the money so you can pay your bills?

    Then say you're the startup entrepreneur and you're suddenly saddled with a burden of paying people to not come in to work. Do you do that "for the greater good", or do you figure out a way to fire that fourth employee so you can avoid the law?

    :marathon:

    Or say that isn't an option. Then you fall into the boat of the businessman in the story: You have X dollars to spend on employees. Suddenly The Government says you need to spend Y dollars on employees. Do you figure out how increase your budget to X+Y, or do you figure out a way to X-Y your existing budget to pay for the unfunded mandate? :marathon:

    Or do you just jack up your prices by a factor of Y during a recession?
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  11. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    :garamet:

    Well, no startup has to pay for the first two years. And it's the fifth FTE, not the fourth that triggers it.

    There is a reason I posted the Times article, as usual Fox News left out that which didn't jive with what they wanted to say.
  12. Elwood

    Elwood I know what I'm about, son.

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    ...to do anything but die a slow and very, very, very painful* death? :clyde:







    * - I'm talking nails on the cross type pain for each and every Union Leader.
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  13. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    I started the year with 245 hours of "paid time off" (can be used as either sick time or personal time). I'm down to 95 at the moment. I can carry 80 over to next year, but I'd like to get down to 40 by Dec, to use as snow days, or carry over to next year if not.

    My boss had about 300 hours this year, and she's been taking every Friday off during the summer just to burn them.

    We also get a week off between Christmas and New Year.

    I actually didn't know any company didn't allow sick time. Seems fairly inhumane.
  14. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Most do. And as I said above with the startup exception and 5 employee threshold this is expected to pretty much only impact low level service jobs. The kind of businesses that can't really relocate. When Diamond has to start giving their parking attendants sick days, it's not like they are going to pick up and move their parking lots to Bellevue.

    My biggest problem with this is the union exception. If this is being sold as a public health law, does a bargaining agreement somehow mean union employees CAN'T get sick?!?!
  15. brudder1967

    brudder1967 this is who we are

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    My former company gave us 5 vacation days and 5 personal days a year. I used them sparingly because I never knew if I'd need them if I was sick. They also didn't have a 401K plan either.

    Other than getting a check, I don't miss them at all.
  16. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    I worked construction in Phoenix AZ in the 80's.
    No paid holidays, no paid sick time, no 401K, it rains you don't work (no pay)....two fifteen minute breaks a day, and one of these was your "lunch."

    No surprise life improved greatly when I joined The Army.
  17. Sokar

    Sokar Yippiekiyay, motherfucker. Deceased Member

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    Seattle should be nuked for the good of the country. Just to be sure.

    :nuke:
  18. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Whelp. Fox was right. The year after enacting paid sick leave, the economy tanked and Seattle had the worst population and job growth in the nation.

    Oh wait... oops. I was reading the charts wrong. Turns out Seattle had the BEST population and job growth in the nation. Heh.. wow. Wonder how they managed that, what with the job killing paid sick leave.

    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/fyi-g...e-is-the-fastest-growing-big-city-in-the-u-s/

    And it's not just the region doing well, but specifically Seattle. Two years ago Seattle grew faster than it's suburbs for the first time in 100 years. Last year the growth rate in the city was double that in the suburbs (together Seattle and it's suburbs accounted for over half of all growth in the State).

    Maybe the suburbs should look at adding paid sick leave. :yes:
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
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  19. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    And it turns out the same thing happened here. When the City Auditor asked the University of Washington to study the effects, the majority of business owners now support the ordinance. Also while most said implementing it was painless, about a 1/3rd had initial difficulties but almost all of those said the difficulties were temporary.

    http://www.seattlemet.com/data/files/2014/4/attachment/194/PSSTO_UWReport_wAppendices_copy.pdf
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  20. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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  21. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Yep, almost all the increase was in the food and hotel industry.

    "Employers in the food and accommodation sector posted the greatest increase, with 78% of employers now providing paid leave coverage, up from 14% a year prior."

    http://www.seattlemet.com/data/files/2014/4/attachment/194/PSSTO_UWReport_wAppendices_copy.pdf
  22. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    I think some of the people here think that paid sick leave is unlimited. Like they could be out for a month with a cold and still get paid. :jayzus:
  23. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Noli Me Tangere. Administrator Overlord

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    Seattle is ruined! :lol:
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  24. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    If they just hurry up, and cut through the red tape holding up full un-ambiguous weed legalization, they'll have all the "green jobs", they can handle.
    :diacanu:
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  25. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Last edited: May 25, 2014
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  26. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Noli Me Tangere. Administrator Overlord

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  27. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    I enjoy these old threads.
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  28. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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  29. Chuck

    Chuck Go Giants!

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  30. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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