Spanish Civil War Part Deux?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Ebeneezer Goode, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Member of Species 5618

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    I don't @Lanzman 's meteor atractor isn't up and running yet.
  2. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    I for one am shocked, shocked you have zero interest in learning, teach.
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  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    Why do you use the term "teach". I've never seen it used in anything but a derogatory tone. Something I certainly do not deserve. Once again, moderate your tone or get lost.
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  4. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Dreadful Angel. Administrator Overlord

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    :dayton:
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  5. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

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    Do the younger generations of Basques oppose independence? The vast majority of young people (14-18 year olds in 1997) I met while staying there were pro-independence. But maybe that was just because I spent 11 out of 14 days in a real rural area (Galdames) and only a couple days in Bilbao. Also Josu and his whole family we pro-independence so could be sample bias. Pro people tend to hang with pro people?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  6. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    On a different note, I have basically been sitting here stuffing my gob with lemon sponge cake and it is good. Very lemony flavored. :drool:
  7. Anna

    Anna Here for the Lulz Formerly Important

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    Because you would never use "laywer" as a troll to fuck with Chup, would you? :dayton:
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  8. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    I had my difference with El Chup and I freely referred to him as "lawyer" meaning to irritate him. Mainly because he irritated me by calling me a racist which I find deeply offensive. Not to mention he too openly denigrated by skills as a teacher for no good reason.
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  9. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    My personal opinion is that irredentists should be drug out into the street and shot. Ginger ambominations too.
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  10. Anna

    Anna Here for the Lulz Formerly Important

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    No, he called you out because your teaching blows and you get fired more often than a ceramic kiln :blink:

    I'm sure you're due for another sacking any day now. :blink:
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  11. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    Except there was no evidence of that whatsoever.
  12. Anna

    Anna Here for the Lulz Formerly Important

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    It's called "your entire posting history."

    "Teacher" :blink:
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  13. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Remind me what’s so wrong with self-determination again? :garamet:
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  14. K.

    K. Sober

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    Rural vs urban might play a role, but I think in this case it is really something that has changed between then and now. In the 2000s, Basque independence has become publicly associated mostly with terrorism, and terrorism in turn has been discredited. I think that many people in the region might actually support independence if you took the time to discuss it with them in detail, but don't want to be associated with the independence movement at all, because those are the people blowing up bus stops.

    Here's a study from last year that says support for Basque independence has dropped to a new low of 19%, down from 30% only two years before. Clearly, this is a recent trend, and it might be interesting to ask the people you spoke to in 1997 how they feel now.
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  15. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    As usual, and as with most topics, you're wrong.

    Maybe, instead of posting shrill short posts demanding evidence and the such, you change the habit of a lifetime and actually go investigate things rather than lazily make a pronouncement, expect every other fucker to do the legwork and then moan when they do and it proves you incorrect, followed by that implicit term of surrender "agree to disagree"?

    Really, there are bots that make more effort.
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  16. K.

    K. Sober

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    In this very thread you have:
    • made historical claims that are completely inaccurate
    • refused to read up on the facts you're missing
    • demonstrated a lack of reading comprehension of the few bits you did read
    • demonstrated that you can't follow a logical argument of minor complexity
    That suffices to show that you absolutely never ever should be teaching history to anyone.
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  17. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Catalonia is Spain's powerhouse, so Spain doesn't want them to leave and it most certainly doesn't want the Basque or Galicians getting ideas, so the downsides are almost certainly Spain making sure EU membership difficult and appropriating Catalan business (this has already been done with two banks) as well as making the border crossing difficult (the Spanish know how to be pricks, ask the Gibraltarians) and likely some violence.

    Upsides would be exiting a fairly corrupt Spanish where a few families hold the levers of power, and where Madrid does its level best to exert control. A rail map of Spain is illustrative in how Madrid sees the rest of Spain, part of which is what is holding back the nation as a whole.

    The biggest downside is that the EU would side with Madrid, the EU are in no mood to tolerate secessionist ideas, and its become apparent that the potential for violence within the EU is an acceptable price for maintaining that stance.
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  18. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    I think part of it is also how the Basque region bounced back from the pre-90's doldrums. It's no long a post-industrial wasteland, and attracts a lot of internal and external migration, so independence doesn't seem as vital a goal to the regions long term health.

    It's a pity the US Rust Belt doesn't go take some notes.
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  19. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    As someone once pointed out there is not enough land and resources in the world to give each separatists group what they think is their "fair share".
  20. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Libertarian Socialist

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    Meh. I support their right to secede if they want, but I'm not sure it's a good idea. The Spanish are definitely making their cause appear more worthy of sympathy.
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  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    How? By wanting to fight to keep their country from breaking up? By that reasoning the northern (Union) states should've just allowed the Confederacy to leave in 1861.
  22. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Libertarian Socialist

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    Their position would have been far better served by allowing the referendum to proceed and simply making it clear that they considered it illegal than by "wanting to fight". i.e. attacking people at voting centres.
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  23. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I don't know enough about the historical situation in Spain to have an informed opinion on that specific situation, but should individual people be able to secede and form their own nations?

    If so, how would you deal with the US breaking into thousands (at the minimum) individual countries?

    If not, then the question isn't what is wrong with it, but what are the criteria by which individual cases should be judged.
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  24. K.

    K. Sober

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  25. Teh Baba Returns

    Teh Baba Returns Fresh Meat

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    Dayton should write game of thrones, discovery and witcher episodes.
  26. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    That seems self-contradictory, especially in cases where the borders of such a breakaway region would be well-defined beforehand. What gives Madrid more of a right to govern Catalonia than Barcelona when the consent of the governed is for Barcelona?
  27. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Yes, and I wouldn’t as it wouldn’t be my problem, respectively. It’s quite odd to me that the decisions of my ancestors should bind my property (in my person in particular, but more generally as well) to a state in perpetuity.
  28. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Without the backdrop of slavery, they should have.
  29. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey precariat

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    Which is essentially the list of grounds Quebec has every time they get into the separatist mood...