Standing Rock, with Mounties!

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Spaceturkey, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    So yeah, for the last while there's been blockades at the edge of a First Nation to prevent a pipeline going through virgin wilderness. This weekend the RCMP and oil company reps invaded the territory and shit kind of hit the fan up here. Rail corridors in other reserves and in cities have been blockaded in protest, smaller towns have followed suit holding demonstrations, a couple of ports have been facing labour disruptions.

    First off, here's the wikipedia for some basic info.

    But the last decade has seen an explosion in awareness of past injustices to native peoples. This is a continuation of IdleNoMore, itself having risen from the ashes of Occupy. People my age remember the Oka and Ipperwash as well... Indigenous land claims vs Fossil resources is likely going to shape the discussion for the next few years here.
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  2. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Meanwhile 1.5 million litres of oil were spilled in a train derailment this morning in Sask :sigh:
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  3. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

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    I think it's funny that only three people posting in this thread so far are Canucks.

    Shows how much the rest of the world gives a fuck. :lol:
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  4. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    we aren't mind readers! It's not like we were bombarded with this news. But I see your point - three people - that's about half the Canadian population!
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  5. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

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    CN and VIA Rail have completely shut down due to the protests. The entire railway system in Canada has ground to a halt.

    The protesters just lost my sympathy, as well as the sympathy of hundreds of thousands of Canadians. Also, Trudeau is an arsehole who speaks platitudes but doesn't actually do anything about anything.

    Fuck 'em all.

    This is how you deal with protesters blocking rail lines:

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  6. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    then we have people like Amaris who nothing will get done until we "take it to the streets" and give in to complete anarchy & chaos and much blood & violence. Obviously that is generally what people with nothing to lose say, so I take that with a grain of salt.

    no es bueno....es malo!

    bee.jpg
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  7. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Rebel Scum

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    I demand the title be changed to Welcome to Canada where you go to prison for being an environmentalist. You know, since a whole country can be condemned for one bad actor.
  8. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    I demand you give your balls a tug, titfucker - btw heard you got a job at the sperm bank but got fired for drinking on the job
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  9. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Rebel Scum

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    You really reached for that one didn’t you? Titfucker? Is that supposed to to be an insult because I like titty fucking. Then the sperm bank thing, don’t know where that came from, nor the drinking on the job. 4.5 out of 10. Lay off the moulson eh.
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  10. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    And you're surprised when people think you're an actual child. :rotfl:
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  11. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Fuck, this pheasant doesn't watch Letterkenny and know what a Shoresy chirp is

    Figure it out and give your balls a tug you fuckin American

  12. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne The Gay Collective(tm) Formerly Important

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    To be entirely fair, most countries don't give a shit about their own indigenous populations, either. :(

    Trump just blew up a native graveyard for his border wall a few days ago, and I only heard about that from a Tumblr post. :(
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  13. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    I hadn't heard about that. :mad:

    Google tells me that most major news outlets covered it, though.
  14. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

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    That's because he is.
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  15. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    So am I. I'm just a very mature child, as I've been saying for the last 50 years or more.

    :bailey:
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  16. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    given that those rail right of ways often traverse sovereign reserves, be glad they haven't torn up the tracks. They'd be within their rights.

    while they may have lost your sympathy, many hundreds of thousands have also had our awareness, interest, and support increase.
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  17. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    that's the thing... it ain't the protesters bringing blood and violence. They're unarmed saying "stay off of our land. By the way, here are several alternate routes through our land that you can take"


    Anyway


    VANCOUVER -- New video released by Indigenous pipeline opponents in northern B.C. appears to show an officer pointing a rifle in the direction of a Gitxsan Nation man as the RCMP moved in on a checkpoint on Wet'suwet'en territory.

    The video, which was edited before being published, was shared by the Gidimt'en Camp on Facebook Wednesday. The group said it was filmed by Gitxsan activist Denzel Sutherland-Wilson, who was stationed atop a tower during the RCMP enforcement of the interlocutory injunction on Wet'suwet'en land on Feb. 7. The protesters had been attempting to stop the construction of a Coastal GasLink pipeline project.

    Another demonstrator on the tower, Anne Spice, is overheard saying, "you've got us safely surrounded with all of your weapons, with your automatic weapons. For what? For four Indigenous people trying to protect this land." The camera then pans around to show multiple armed officers below the demonstrators.

    The video then shows an ERT member standing behind a truck on its side while holding a rifle. The officer then appears to point the firearm in the direction of the person filming the video.

    "There is no need to point guns at us. There is no need," Sutherland-Wilson is overheard yelling in the video. "Don't point your gun at me. Please. He's pointing his gun at me. The one by the truck. Take your gun off of me."

    The video then pans over to show about 15 officers standing in the snow.

    "They're making the media leave. They don't want them to see us pointing their guns at us. I have nothing. Please take down your weapon. I'm asking you, media can you please get footage of them pointing their gun at me?" Sutherland-Wilson said.

    The RCMP said in an emailed statement that the ERT member was using the rifle scope as a "magnified observation device in a manner consistent with police training."

    "The ERT member did not point the firearm at any protestor during the operation. The rifle scope has a large objective lens which allows the viewer to observe people or objects without pointing a rifle at anyone," said RCMP.

    Mounties said the ERT member had been told prior to the operation that there would be rifles in the protest camp which they believed were used for hunting but "could present a threat to police."

    "A male was atop a tower above the bus, below was a female behind a screen of wood, two or three people were seen moving inside the bus, and a male was noted in a tree. Unknown persons were in cabin about 100m away, and it was unknown whether there were any other persons inside structures of the camp area. Police officers cannot simply assume there are not threats in situations such as this," Mounties said.

    In the Facebook video, a protester can be heard stating that they aren't armed.

    Even though the ERT members were carrying binoculars, police said the scope allowed the officer to "safely and effectively respond to a threat to the public and police."

    Mounties said that once the ERT member ensured there were no "lethal threats" present, he transitioned to binoculars.

    "This was the most suitable and only piece of equipment to quickly and effectively observe the persons at the scene," said the statement.

    No one was injured and the people who were taken into custody were arrested with a "minimum amount of force," according to police.

    The video's release comes as a group supporting the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs occupied the B.C. attorney general's office in Vancouver on Thursday. The latest demonstration marks the seventh day of action from the activists opposed to the Coastal GasLink pipeline in northern B.C.


    Now I thought the rule was never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot. Wouldn't that double down on one of these (which is likely what the mountie here has)?


    Thousands of Remington model 700 customers have complained to Remington that the trigger mechanism could fire without the trigger being squeezed.[20][21] Remington received nearly 2,000 complaints from 2013 through 2016.[21] 150 lawsuits have been filed against Remington alleging injury or death related to the trigger.[21] Lawsuits have alleged that Remington covered up a design flaw in the trigger mechanism resulting in dozens of deaths and hundreds of serious injuries.[22] A class action lawsuit alleges Remington knowingly sold a defective product.[21] The Attorneys general from nine states and the District of Columbia objected to the proposed settlement in the class action, saying that Remington has "long known" of the defect and that the proposed settlement "fails to adequately protect public safety."[23]
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  18. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

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    I'd bet hard cash that the number of people who are pissed off outweigh the supporters by a factor of at least 10 to 1.
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  19. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    I'd go closer to 3-5 to 1, but neither of the two folks I know who had to reassess travelling from Toronto to Montreal seemed particularly put out. You'd have to get into the second tier of 905 land before the difference split below 50/50, I'd wager... I mean, we're expecting Yellow Vests to show up in numbers for tomorrow's action, but most of'em are 519. Although, there's the actual majority that doesn't really give a fuck beyond a gut response before going about their day. So yeah, you may get the ratio you claim once you hit deep Ford country.
  20. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Yeah i saw that video with the RCMP officer pointing his weapon. He was a long way away from them and was just looking down his scope

    The video starts with “this may be super traumatic for people viewing this and 2 people’s lives were in serious danger”. Total bullshit and complete propaganda on their part, whole thing was pretty minor

    Huge nothing burger. I mean if that’s the best example they’ve got of police misbehaving then life as a protestor is pretty good :shrug:
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  21. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Friends have been spamming it on my fb feed.
  22. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    whoa there! "Looking down his scope"? :shakefist: Negative! Never use a rifle scope as your binoculars! That's a basic rule of weapon safety. :nono: You can afford a scoped rifle but not cheap binos? FUBAR!
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  23. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    it's a sniper rifle... i think you're supposed to be a fair ways away. (although, it looks like less than 100m).
    given the history of Oka, Ipperwash, or the location (Highway of Tears/MMIW), yeah, folks that aren't under the RCMP's radar are always gonna be a little extra frightened.

    Now, do we wanna get back to the point of Unis'toten being unceded territory that the Canadian government has no jurisdiction in, or...?
  24. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    also..




    VANCOUVER—Some of B.C.’s largest unions have issued statements criticizing RCMP action at the Wet’suwet’en blockade in northern B.C. last week.

    Police arrested 14 people attempting to stop workers from getting onto traditional nation territory, where a pipeline is planned to be built.

    The B.C. Government and Service Employees Union (BCGEU) and the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE), the two largest public-sector unions in the province, both released statements within the last week expressing concern over police actions and support for Wet’suwet’en nation members.


    Union statements on the Wet’suwet’en standoff have been rare; thousands of unionized jobs depend on the pipeline being built.

    The police actions drew national attention, as critics considered the standoff a test of Canada’s commitment to reconciliation with Indigenous people. The RCMP has said it is conducting a review of the “challenging and emotional” police action, which included heavily armed officers and heated exchanges with demonstrators.

    The 14 people arrested were accused of breaking a court injunction, granted in December, against blocking the work site. None were criminally charged, but all agreed to appear in court as part of a civil case.

    Coastal GasLink, the company planning to build the pipeline, argued the blockade had effectively halted work on an approved project

    Police have reached an agreement with the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs to allow workers access to the planned pipeline site.


    BCGEU and CUPE B.C. chose to focus their statements on the RCMP interactions with Wet’suwet’en demonstrators and their allies, rather than on the pipeline project itself.

    “It is difficult to understand how the RCMP’s military-style enforcement of the court injunction last week could be defensible if there is a true, meaningful commitment to reconciliation,” reads a portion of the CUPE B.C. statement, released Monday.

    Paul Faoro, CUPE B.C. president, said in an interview the union intentionally delayed publishing a statement on the issue until union leaders from across the province had a chance to discuss the events with each other and with Indigenous partners of the B.C. Federation of Labour.

    Faoro said he came away from those discussions feeling the union should speak up about what it saw as “heavy-handed” action by the RCMP, without taking a position on Coastal GasLink.

    “This had nothing to do with pipelines,” he said. “I pride our relationship with the other unions in B.C., including the B.C. Building Trades.”

    But Faoro said his membership “did not feel comfortable saying nothing” about the police action.

    “There was a consensus among the membership that what was seen on the news was not right,” he said.

    Pipelines have traditionally caused divisions within the B.C. labour movement. Some unions, including CUPE B.C. locals, openly oppose projects like the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion for environmental reasons, while construction unions provide thousands of workers for the same projects.

    As the conflicts between police and demonstrators unfolded, would-be pipeline workers were watching closely, prepared to begin work on the site.

    Union leaders representing some of the Coastal GasLink pipeline workers told The Star Vancouver last week that work on the pipeline was “necessary.” The pipeline is planned to supply the $40-billion LNG Canada plant in Kitimat, B.C.

    For the B.C. Federation of Labour, an umbrella organization representing 500,000 affiliated union members, pipelines are often a matter of “spirited debate.”

    Laird Cronk, president of the federation, said Wednesday that’s not the debate he feels the unions should currently be having about Coastal GasLink.


    He said in his 30 years of experience in the labour movement, including participation in instances of “civil disobedience,” he’s never seen police encounters that appeared so “militaristic” as the one that took place on traditional Wet’suwet’en territory.

    “If there was a trade union affiliate that had a picket line up and refused to take it down, and that was the response from the RCMP, I believe the entire labour movement would stand up to support them,” Cronk said.

    “This is about how Indigenous people were treated by the RCMP up there ... I think the trade union movement should be concerned about that.”
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  25. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    :dayton: That was one of least frightening things I’ve ever seen

    Well I’d rather talk about actually building some pipelines and how it’s an absolute joke that we can’t despite having a large number of Wet’suwet’en signing off and supporting it and how these protests appear to be funded by foreigners and full of people that don’t even know what the pipelines are actually doing to be transporting but....

    I guess you can call it unceded land, which seems like a ridiculous thing in 2020, but the inconvenient truth here is that it’s only 5 Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs opposed to the pipeline, and not the 13,000 Indigenous British Columbians represented by all the band councils that support it

    Also, another massively underreported thing is that of the 1000 people currently working on the pipeline project for, 1/3 are First Nations

    Honeslty though i don’t even blame the FN, i blame the supremely incompetent Joe Horgan who has been giving more of a voice to the fringe and crazies and emboldening them since he took office. The guy is a disaster but of course he is, he’s NDP
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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  26. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    The police are too "militaristic?" :dayton: Newsflash people - law enforcement equipment and tactics evolve over time - get over it!
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  27. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    you must lead a terrifying lifestyle then. and this is coming from a guy who manages a speakeasy.

    there was talk about building the pipeline through their territory, they offered a route acceptable to them, it was rejected by CGL. Interesting you'd make the claim about foreign funding as major stakeholders include a Korean public pension fund and backing by the Hong Seng Bank while their counter protestors seem to be familiar faces from the various "XXXX-proud" astro turfed conservative side of the aisle.
    not sure why the uncertainty about "unceded" or why it's ridiculous now than it would have been in 1820? Likewise, it's far more than the five people who actually have the authority to sign off (elected councils are for internal governance, not, for lack of a better term, international diplomacy).

    "
    It’s complicated. The elected chief and council signed the agreement, but the hereditary chiefs are opposed. The 13 hereditary chiefs argue that the elected chief only has jurisdiction over the band’s reserves, and that hereditary chiefs retain jurisdiction over the traditional territory where the checkpoint and camps are located.

    The band with the elected council who have the reserve is called the Wet’suwet’en First Nation. The hereditary chiefs are leaders of the Wet’suwet’en Nation. The difference has been described like a municipal government versus the federal government. The two governance structures are different and have different jurisdictions. The elected council was established by the federal government when they made reserves. The hereditary chiefs are how the Wet’suwet’en Nation have always governed themselves.*"



    I think you've confused under reported with marginally relevant. 333 jobs "benefiting" 13000 people by your numbers... not sure that constitutes the majority support you're claiming either. It is an oddity about BC though, that the provincial NDP out there is probably more centrist than anywhere else in the country.
  28. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    part of the problem there... the "police" in this instance are in a definition grey area. They're technically a military regiment and indeed have been the face of enforcing settler occupation of FN lands since their formation. there's a lot of under reported (to borrow 10L's term) history surrounding land claims stand offs like this (which has actually been going on for 11 years).

    What's key is that the RCMP do not have jurisdiction on that land.
  29. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

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    Emphasis mine.

    This is the point that @Spaceturkey and others don't seem to get. First Nations aren't some homogeneous big group. There are an equal number of Wet’suwet’en who don't support the protest and just want to get to work, but they keep their mouth shut because they'd be tarred and feathered by the more vocal elements of their Nation. (In that sense, First Nations politics is no different than white man politics.)

    I lived in Alberta for a few years, which sensitized me to indigenous more than 95% of Ontarians. They are complex issues. The Canadian government has a very shitty track record of treating First Nations, going back more than a century to present day. Trudeau is just an empty shirt and says a lot of nice things but never actually does anything.

    The notion that pipeline=bad and Wet’suwet’en=good is simplistic, wrong-headed and doesn't help anyone or advance the cause of reconciliation.
  30. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey you can't spell hatred without "red hat"

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    meh-you do me a disservice with that homogeneous cultural perception bit... although I do appreciate your adjusting the numeric perception of your own from earlier.
    Likewise, I've also spent a few years in AB (shortly after the Lubicon were making similar protests in the late 80s-dared a girl from there for a while), as well as living within Tyendenagan lands,been a guest at Six Nay on several occasions... Oh, and Shilo Hill (one of the "Four")is a former housemate and extended kin... we're tight enough that I'll be at the naming ceremony for he and Eve's baby. I could go on but I'm not trying to "signal" anything so much as clarify that I'm not hopping a bandwagon here-I've had fairly intimate connection/awareness to a decent amount of the last 30+ years of FN self determination as more than spectator.

    The notion isn't that "pipeline=bad "here, but rather that "present pipeline route=unacceptable, here. How's this route look"? The other thing that really needs clarifying here is the difference between hereditary and elected councils. Ironic, because they're sort of analogous to constitutional monarchy in what they're able to do. In this case, the elected council has overstepped it's authority to act. Think of it like the OMB deciding that your neighbourhood is now zoned for condos and a new retail campus, and didn't consult the people who live there or your town council.


    Otherwise, we're pretty much in agreement. Trudeau has blown it on reconciliation and (hopefully) it'll cost him the next election.