Star Trek Discovery.

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by Diacanu, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    TOS isn't even the original timeline.
    TAS establishes that Spock-prime died as a child, and Kirk had an Andorian science officer, and the only reason Spock-prime exists, is because of a time loop where he saves himself via the Guardian Of Forever.
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  2. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    but does a closed loop paradox count though?

    I once thought it would be cool to chart out all the time incursions and potential new timelines but I figured someone already had.

    Not counting pre-history shit (didn't that happen?) there's Time's Arrow then Cty (although the GoF said "everything is as it was") then the mucking around in the sixties then Voyager's time in 1986 then that ugly episode in Detroit (with mountains!) by Enterprise then the Bell Riots by DS9 and...you get the idea...

    Question is, which timeline was the original TOS actually set in because it can't actually be the prime.
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  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    In the novel "Ishmael" Spock at the end concluded "we already live in an altered timeline".
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  4. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Magnum Dong

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    Peoples have wonderful memories of watching TOS because their brains edit out all the boring parts, of which there were many. There are a lot of great moments, but there's also a shitload of filler. :yes:
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  5. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Magnum Dong

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    Star Trek as a franchise takes place across a multiverse that grows with every temporal incursion. They don't label it as such, but that's what it is.
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  6. K.

    K. Sober

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    You can always come up with explanations in a fictional world. The question is aesthetic, to my mind: why place a Trek series in that timeframe if you don't want to have it look like that timeframe?
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  7. Coloratura

    Coloratura Probably a Dual

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    Just from my viewpoint, if there would have been a post-Voyager series, I likely wouldn't have been interested, because as we moved along, the show became more and more about technobabble, and continuity, and less about good storytelling.

    In the original series, when Scotty said shit was going down, it's because shit was going down. He didn't describe, in exhaustive detail, what the phase inverter was going to do if the quantum flux filament went out of sync with the matter/anti-matter reactor, he just fixed it. It was understood that this is not reality, it's fiction. Each iteration of Trek tried harder and harder to scientifically justify things that were not really justifiable. Moreso, the characters became more and more bland as each new series premiered. DS9 shook that up just a bit, but overall, each show became progressively more milquetoast.

    When ENT came out, they had a surefire way to really take a stab at a more relatable series, with more relatable characters because it was set much closer to our time. What did we get? Technobabble, and milquetoast personalities, but in blue jumpsuits. Kludgy names for obvious technology supposedly in its infancy. Seriously, phase pistols? Photonic torpedoes? Were people supposed to be impressed? Nostalgic? What?

    So now we go back to the swashbuckling, on-the-edge-of-the-frontier adventures of the original series era, which promises a familiar setting, but with a more modern aesthetic. If the Abrams films are any indication, this combination brings in fistfuls of money.

    TL;DR - Money. On that note, why would they make a prequel series look like the TOS time frame? That would be something only the core Trek fan base would appreciate, maybe, and we saw what results when we appeal only to them: Nemesis, which had the lowest box office performance of any Star Trek film. They'd be stupid to try that again.
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  8. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    To get rid of replicators and holodecks?
    :shrug:
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  9. Coloratura

    Coloratura Probably a Dual

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    This, too. The technology in Star Trek had become ubiquitously absurd by the time of Voyager. Everything could cure everything and fix everything, and they ran back to the technology well so often that the stories became predictable, banal, and boring.
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  10. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    "Believability is the test. What do real people do and say? When a policeman picks up his .38, does he explain how it works? Do you know how the trigger levers work the firing pin, the nature of the primer, the chemicals in the powder, and so on? All you need or really care to know is that when he uses it, you see it work, and you accept it." --Gene Roddenberry, quoted in The Making of Star Trek 1968
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  11. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    that plus, Trek has a tricky problem - the best stories are usually found on the frontier, but the lone ship on the frontier is also cut off from a lot of the broader context Trek fans have come to expect.
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  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    You sound like Rick Berman complaining that "Star Trek has gone as far as it can go".

    Talk about lack of imagination.
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  13. Coloratura

    Coloratura Probably a Dual

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    Not lack of imagination, lack of patience for soliloquies on the inner workings of the trans-dimensional zip zapper that are gone over in exhaustive detail, when it's better just to press the goddamned button and let us see for ourselves. I'm tired of Trek taking itself so seriously that it can't have fun anymore. Dramatic license is great, but there's still room to be wowed. The Abrams films are fun. Fun. You know, fun?
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  14. K.

    K. Sober

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    Right. But that's a question of storytelling, not timeline placement.
  15. Coloratura

    Coloratura Probably a Dual

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    People remember Kirk and Spock. You say "this is the era with Kirk and Spock!" and casual fans will know what you're talking about. More casual fans, old fans, new fans, means more money.
  16. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Short answer? They want viewers

    Longer answer - it's unreasonable to expect a modern series set in roughly that time to follow the design guidelines of a half century back.

    Quick question, related though tangential, do you respect a Christian who takes a literal interpretation of the Bible more than one who reads it more allegorically having recognised centuries of change and new information?

    Because the former is what you're asking modern Trek producers to be.
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  17. K.

    K. Sober

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    I'm not asking for anything. I wonder what the producers' motivation is for their choice. Note that I'm not wondering what the motivation is for updating the look and feel of the thing, because that's obvious. I'm wondering why, given their awareness of that need, they decided to place it in that specific spot in the timeline.

    In the tangential mode, it's like a Christian trying to tell the allegorical story of the good Samaritan through the plot of Samson, when the plot of the good Samaritan would have been equally available.
  18. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Fair enough, I just get a little grumpy that there are people who are unable to recognise things have changed. I'd love something that looked liked 60's Trek, but I kind of want it made in the 60's. Making it now just ends up being a pastiche.

    As for using that timeframe, it's mostly virgin territory, and sets up what TOS will be. We've never seen how political/military setup of TOS was reached, so I'm hoping there are plenty of good tales to be told.

    My preference would be to have the series set further ahead than the TNG/DS9/VOY era, and preferably in another galaxy entirely. Hell, have a series where the Federation is helping the Kelvans save Andromeda or something.

    Not really, those are two distinct stories. I'd have no problems with the Good Samaritan being told through the same time and area as Samson, but the plot would be nonsensical unless the Samaritan was a magic hairdresser.
  19. K.

    K. Sober

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    Which is where I'm coming from. I haven't seen the show yet; for all I know there might be a good reason for choosing this setting, and I'm eager to find out. Only barring a specific good reason, it seems as if the producers themselves possibly haven't sufficiently recognised that things have indeed changed: as if they took that realisation seriously for designing ships and uniforms and indeed Klingons, but then went with short-sighted nostalgia for the setting.
  20. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

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    All this blah blah blah about timelines and alternate universes and Trek this and Trek that.

    Look, folks: the bottom line is that prequels suck. (The Godfather Part II being the exception that proves the rule.)

    Give the vastness of the established Trekverse, we should all be quite concerned that the idiots at CBS have decided to do yet another prequel.

    Because we all know how the last Trek prequel turned out. :ramen:
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  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    In regards to the incredible level of technobabble in modern Star Trek I think there might be a specific reason for that.

    J.Michael Straczynski (Babylon Five) referred to this a couple of decades ago regarding writing for modern Star Trek which he contrasted unfavorably with his show. So I don't know how accurate it is.

    Supposedly when the named writer for a Trek episode was working on the script and needed a technological explanation for something happening they would simply write the word "TECH" in and later a lower level rewriter would insert something that "sounded techy".
  22. matthunter

    matthunter Magical Truthsaying Bastard

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    B5 was explicitly more "science fantasy" though (much like Doctor Who and Star Wars) so the tech is there to enable the setting, not to be explained. Trek would have had the main characters scanning Kosh with tricorders, multimodal scans and fuck-knows-what-else the instant he stepped on the station. B5 was comfortable with the "he's mysterious and you ain't finding out shit unless he wants you to" dynamic.
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  23. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    Yes, usually the science advisor, but it was often then run past Berman, and he occasionally changed it to something he thought sounded better.
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  24. Aurora

    Aurora VincerĂ²!

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    like: the cinematic look and the actors. they obviously put some cash into this.

    still not liking the prequel-thing. sucked once and we still know the outcome no matter what happens.
  25. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Member of Species 5618

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    This guy really knows his Trek.:lol:
  26. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    We knew the ending of TOS.
    They go to planets for 5 years, and nobody dies.
    It's right in the intro and the cast listing.
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  27. Aurora

    Aurora VincerĂ²!

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    Yea... you know that I know that you know how I mean it ;)
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  28. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    he fucked up in the very first minute so how much can he know?
  29. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    IIRC around 70 or so members of the Enterprise crew died during just the three years of the five year mission we saw.
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  30. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    :sigh:
    Yeah, yeah, big guy, we know.
    :pathead:
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