The Horrors of Immigration: Germany's Unemployment Lowest in 25 Years

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by K., Oct 3, 2016.

  1. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,284
    Ratings:
    +31,182
    So for two years now, we have been told that all the economists are wrong and all the historical experience we've had with immigration in all of the decades since World War Two is wrong; and that rather than improving our economy, the massive immigration we had last year and that continued, to a lesser extent, this year, would wreck our economy, and unemployment would explode. Because that's what some people's gut told them.

    Well, unemployment in September 2016 is at a record low. Lowest in 25 years; that reaches back to the prosperity of the 90s, which we thought we'd never see again. What unemployment does exist hardly correlates with recent immigration at all; while they are disproportionally represented in the unemployment numbers (5% of unemployed as opposed to roughly 1.25% of the population), those who are allowed to work find jobs sooner than we predicted, and a rise in fugitives at factors between 10 and 20 only leads to a rise in unemployed fugitives at a factor of 2.

    (Sources, albeit in German, are here -- Handelsblatt; FAZ; Focus. My favorite is right-wing rag Focus, who were so reluctant to give up the fairytale of fugitives destroying the economy that they chose to headline their report with a dramatic question -- "Will unemployment rise even further due to the unprecedented intake of fugitives?!", only to then concede in their main article that the answer is, "Um, no, actually things look fine.")

    Make no mistake: When fugitives flee their country due to a bloody civil war, we should take them in anyway, even if they do present economic hardship -- even more so when we share the blame for the sorry state they're in. So this isn't the basis for my stance on the issue. But even so, it's nice to see that things are looking up, and it's equally nice to see that the world acts coherently and as predicted rather than as the hate- and fearmongers pretended it would.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Winner Winner x 4
  2. Dan Leach

    Dan Leach Climbing Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    32,312
    Location:
    Lancaster UK
    Ratings:
    +10,530
    For how long has "immigration!!!" been the go-to call to summon, gather and unify the stupid end of the right wing? 10, 50, 100, 400, 800, 2000, 6000 years?

    And which parts of the world does this apply to? Or yeah, all of them throughout history.....
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    18,855
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +7,673
    You do know that anti-immigration crosses the political divide, albeit for differing reasons? Yes, for many of the right anti-immigration is a nice facade for their xenophobia, but don't for one moment think it's the preserve of just the right.

    The left, especially in the 70's, were deeply suspicious of the right using economic migration to supplant jobs, keep wages low and circumvent Unions.

    Earlier this, Len McClusky, was busy telling all and sundry that, despite backing Remain, he believes that core to the Trade Union movement was 'control of the labour supply'

    Hardly a cheerleading slogan for immigration.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    18,855
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +7,673
    To be honest, I've not seen too many arguments that the mass immigration would lead to unemployment. A few, yes, but most were querying the social and long-term implications, which we've not seen yet (cue Gtard and Dinner providing Stormfront-level material) and won't for years to come.

    My own concern has always been down to rate, and the states inability to see ground-level effects. A government sees a forest, and will only notice a single rotting tree when they've traced back the origin of a large chunk of the forest having died off. They also don't like funding anything to mitigate social effects of immigration, they're happy to take the tax money though.

    Europe, much like the UK, can handle a much greater volume of immigration than we've seen. It's volume/time that's the problem.

    I agree we should take in fugitives, however I saw Merkel's clarion call in a different light - it was about attracting those able to escape and survive the journey, the smartest and the wealthiest. It's a 21st manifestation of colonialism, and one that worries me as we risk creating a new form of trade route - one where we get the cream of the Middle East, and export back any gibbering shits our systems produce. I mean, what could possibly go wrong there?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,284
    Ratings:
    +31,182
    I think that's a valid observation, but taking into account the depth of the mess we're already in, taking in the fugitives that make it here is still better than turning them away. Merkel has also said we need to do much more to improve conditions at their various places of origin, and to reach them much earlier on their journeys, before they turn into death traps. In the long run, we don't want any of that to be on our initiative, since all of it reinforces current powers and dependencies, but in the short run, we can't let the better be the enemy of the good.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  6. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,317
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,694
    Of course your crime rates are up and your government has tried to lie about it because they're afraid it'll encourage racists, but whatever. :shrug:
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  7. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    18,855
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +7,673
    No arguments on taking them in, but an open invite sets things in motion that perhaps shouldn't be.

    As for improving conditions at origin, well, yes, we do need that to be our initiative. Like it or not, we live in a heavily interconnected world, and weaker nations are the playground of stronger ones - of course that isn't how it should be, but it is the reality. And the powerful nations' primary goal in the weaker ones certainly isn't improving stability, it's at best a secondary goal.

    We cannot predicate our actions on a perfect model or view of the world, it is what it is, and whilst there is nothing wrong at trying to move towards a better world, neither is there any shame in recognising that being a civilisation is a perversely uncivilised affair.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,284
    Ratings:
    +31,182
    ^^Precisely. :techman:
  9. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,284
    Ratings:
    +31,182
    Translation: Crime is down across all studies and immigrants break less laws than natives according to actual empirical statistics, but the same people that swore unemployment would explode don't feel as if that were true.
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
  10. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,284
    Ratings:
    +31,182
    Sources: Zeit, Beck
  11. Aenea

    Aenea .

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,093
    Ratings:
    +5,885

    I love Germany and I want to go back really really badly.

    At the same time when I think about Germany and trying to talk my daughter into going to college there all I think about is Nee Years and the cover up of the sexual assaults. And I wonder how many they are covering up now. And the fact that the police were supposedly told not to tell the race of the perpetrators. :shrug:

    It's just what comes to mind. Hopefully that changes over the next few years and I can talk her into going to school over there.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,284
    Ratings:
    +31,182
    Only it shouldn't be, because those crimes weren't covered up. This is what the constant lies in US media do to a person's view of the world: Many months later, you only remember the original bogus story, not the refutation.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
  13. markb

    markb Dirty Bastard

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    6,614
    Location:
    NYC
    Ratings:
    +4,963
    This thread misses @Wonka. :(