The Impeachment of President Donald J. Trump

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Quest, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    19,028
    Location:
    Chicago, U.S.A.
    Ratings:
    +20,895
    Will it happen? Should it happen?

    Just a few days ago, I thought it was pretty unlikely. Even if he deserved to be impeached, the political will just wasn't there. But a couple recent developments have moved the needle in the other direction. The president's flailing, vitriolic whiplash response to the Mueller report has cemented the image depicted therein of a petty, self-absorbed wannabe tyrant who puts his own private interests ahead of the country. Also, indications are the White House intends to stonewall any and all Congressional investigations. Democratic leaders may not want to impeach the president, but he's leaving them little choice. He's practically begging for it.

    Now, I know that conventional wisdom holds impeachment will backfire on the Democrats and boost Trump, but I'm not sure about that either. It's true that's what happened to Republicans during the Clinton impeachment, but that's only one example. You can't infer anything from that. It may well be that once the American people absorb the evidence laid out by Mueller, and the president's reaction, they will largely agree that something must be done to hold him to account. These are very interesting times indeed.
    • popcorn popcorn x 5
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 2
  2. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    19,028
    Location:
    Chicago, U.S.A.
    Ratings:
    +20,895
  3. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    18,647
    Location:
    Sunnydale
    Ratings:
    +29,662
    Not worth it. He could rob a liquor store in broad daylight followed by sucking Putin's cock on live TV, and there still wouldn't be 20 Senate Republicans with enough integrity to do anything about it.
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  4. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    52,204
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +21,715
    Are you really prepared to accept the possibility of President Pence? Or are you one of those who nurtures of fantasy that Pence would be removed from office as well?

    And if Pence became president say in about January of 2020, then he would certainly be elected in November of 2020. As Barry Goldwater once observed, "the American people don't want three presidents in three years".

    You could easily look at the possibility of Pence being president for nine years.
    • popcorn popcorn x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    19,028
    Location:
    Chicago, U.S.A.
    Ratings:
    +20,895
    There are some who would say impeachment in the House of Representatives, even if followed by acquittal in the Senate, is still a worthy method of rebuking a lawless President.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  6. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    19,028
    Location:
    Chicago, U.S.A.
    Ratings:
    +20,895
    "There is no political inconvenience exception to the U.S. Constitution."
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    25,926
    Location:
    N.C.
    Ratings:
    +23,625
    Let the voters decide.
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. TheBrew

    TheBrew The Hand of Smod

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,101
    Ratings:
    +766
    FTFY
    • Funny x 3
    • popcorn x 3
    • Agree x 1
    • GFY x 1
    • Dumb x 1
  9. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    19,028
    Location:
    Chicago, U.S.A.
    Ratings:
    +20,895
    I can think of one very compelling reason that removal by impeachment would be preferable to waiting for the election: do you think he would ever concede if he loses? Or will it be fake news, illegal votes, rigged election, I'm not leaving?

    He will still hold the office of President for almost three months following the election with the power to cause a lot more trouble. :unsure:
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  10. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    25,926
    Location:
    N.C.
    Ratings:
    +23,625
    Sure. Whatever. Vote the fucker out. Impeachment won't work. It can't work. The Senate won't convict. The ONLY thing it can do is backfire on the Dems.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  11. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Liberal Queen of TNZ

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    6,362
    Location:
    My House
    Ratings:
    +6,964
    It's a terrible idea that will only benefit Republicans.
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  12. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,069
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +36,346
    We have no idea what would happen if Trump were impeached. It's possible that the revelations from such a situation would be enough that a majority of Americans would support his removal from office. It's possible that even if the hearings revealed he was guilty of violating his oath of office/criminal activity, that we wouldn't get enough Republicans voting to remove him from office. It's also possible that the response of the American public would be to vote out Trump and large numbers of Republicans. None of this should matter.

    What should matter is that if there are indications a President violated his oath of office or engaged in criminal activity, an investigation, including impeachment proceedings, should begin. If those lead to his removal from office, or not, that is immaterial. What counts is that the person we've put in the highest office in the land is doing their job and obeying the law.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    83,878
    Ratings:
    +51,831
    If you don't impeach, it sets the precedent that the president is "too big to fail", and that's more destructive to the country than any fucking "backfkfire effect", to the Dems.
    Fuck these Repug assholes, it wasn't "too big to fail", when it was Clinton.
    Get him.
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Corn of Coblin

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    26,235
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +19,236
    Nanny Pelosi has already said impeachment isn’t happening so you guys are shit out of luck.
    • popcorn popcorn x 3
    • GFY GFY x 1
  15. Elwood

    Elwood I know what I'm about, son.

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    28,677
    Location:
    Unknown, but I know how fast I'm going.
    Ratings:
    +20,456
    Doubtful.

    I'm open to arguments for and against. I'd need to see more of the evidence than I have seen to form a coherent opinion.

    I firmly believe that's exactly what will happen without the votes to remove in the Senate. That said, I think it's within the realm of the possible to see a movement for censure from one or both houses.

    I live smack in the middle of Trump's base. I can assure you that they will see this as a blatant, overt attack on the Office of the President of the United States and a direct threat to the heart and soul of the Republic itself. The reaction could range from all-time-high Republican turnout to literal blood in the streets or anywhere in-between.
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  16. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    38,761
    Location:
    The Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue
    Ratings:
    +2,147,503,175
    At this point I think censure is far more likely than impeachment. Not that I think it will happen, just that it's just more likely to happen IMHO.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Sad Sad x 1
  17. Tuttle

    Tuttle Khaaaaaaaaaaann !!!

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    8,673
    Location:
    not NY
    Ratings:
    +4,681
    Please impeach.

    Failing that, please spend as much time as possible investigating anything named Trump.

    His tax returns probably contain a mineload of diamonds each of which will put Trump in jail for 20 years - definitely keep going after Trump's taxes until 2024, I mean until he's impeached, it's a lock. Guaranteed winner.

    Don't fuck it up now like you did with Mueller. In fact, be extra smart, and do both, investigate and impeach, no half measures now you lazy bastards.
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  18. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf Hamachi is a fish best served cold

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,965
    Ratings:
    +25,730
    Remember when the President got impeached over a blowjob? If Trump had a D next to his name, he'd be out by now.
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    19,028
    Location:
    Chicago, U.S.A.
    Ratings:
    +20,895
    :lol::techman:
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    45,759
    Location:
    Spacetime
    Ratings:
    +48,040
    Technically, it was for perjury and obstruction of justice.

    As for impeaching Trump? Bring it.
  21. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,220
    Location:
    here there be dragons
    Ratings:
    +11,479
    Strongly in favor. The conventional wisdom about backlash from impeachment is wrong. Clinton's post-acquittal approval ratings bump lasted a month and from then on went down until the end of his presidency, and Bush won in 2000. The lack of Republican gain in 1998 was due to a) a strong economy, b) opposition to impeachment over something perceived to be trivial, lying about blowjobs. Trying to stop an investigation into an attack on the US is a far cry from that. Imagine if Bush had asked Mueller if he could "see his way clear to letting the whole John Allen Muhammed thing drop", if JAM had campaigned for him. Would have been deservedly impeached in a heartbeat.

    If impeachment fails, censure. Preferably separately for each count of obstruction of justice.
    • popcorn popcorn x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  22. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    41,348
    Location:
    All in your head
    Ratings:
    +25,714
    I recall the "what if he refuses to accept the election results and refuses to leave office?" hysteria over Obama too, and the dems said don't be ridiculous.
    Now they're saying the same about Trump?
    Don't be ridiculous.

    What exactly would happen? A guy who is no longer president and no longer has any power refuses to leave the building? Get the police to drag his ass out.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  23. spot261

    spot261 Hysterical Little Girl

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    6,924
    Ratings:
    +8,227
    It's obviously extremely unlikely with anyone, but I have to say I can at least picture Trump doing it, which is something I can't say about Obama, or Bush, or Clinton. It's a remote possibility but not impossible.

    I raised this a couple of years back on TBBS as a hypothetical when he started making statements about not respecting the election result if he did not win and so on and so forth, to a mixed response, but the world has changed since then and we have gotten used to the idea of leaders who really don't even try to play by the rules.

    I'm not sure it would in practise necessarily be as simple as getting the police to "go in and drag his ass out" either, a lot would depend on the level of support he had in place.

    Previous incidents of this happening have played out very differently depending on the power balances in play. There have, however, certainly been cases around the world of defeated leaders refusing to relinquish power and having sufficient support in the upper echelons of the military, police, intelligence services, or even private security (bear in mind he has a small army of security on the payroll who currently work alongside the SS), all organisations where orders tend to be followed without question, to at the very least make a fight of it. Even assuming he would lose eventually that's a pretty awful prospect and it wouldn't be the first time such a case had sparked a civil war.

    But again, very remote possibility.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    19,028
    Location:
    Chicago, U.S.A.
    Ratings:
    +20,895
    It was ridiculous with Obama. With Trump we have a man who has never admitted defeat in his life backed by a mob of supporters completely divorced from objective reality.

    Election Day is Nov. 3. Inauguration Day is Jan. 20. That's 78 days during which he would still be president and still have power. I trust the military to uphold the constitution, but obviously I hope it wouldn't come to that.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  25. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    52,204
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +21,715
    If President Trump lost the election in 2020 then at one second past 12 noon on January 20th, 2021, his PIN to open the football would cease to work and the PIN selected by his successor would be automatically activated.

    Several key things regarding transfer of power are pretty much automatic.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  26. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    41,348
    Location:
    All in your head
    Ratings:
    +25,714
    We may have riots in the street here, but I sure as hell hope we're not the kind of people who'd have an armed revolution to take over the country.
  27. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    19,686
    Location:
    What the Duck?
    Ratings:
    +13,487
    I think you impeach and leave the republicans in the position of allowing the president to get away with his illegal behavior and then putting their lawlessness on them in the senate and house next election. It is the job of congress to go through the procedure and do the oversight.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    83,878
    Ratings:
    +51,831
    Exactly.
    You at least try.
    You don't just throw up your hands, and go "oh, enforcing the laws of the country are hard, so we'll do nothing :shrug:".
    Then let's give up the whole country then, you pussies.
    Let's drop the pretense, and have a banana republic.
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  29. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    25,882
    Ratings:
    +27,424
    Right, when was a Revolution ever good for America?
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  30. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    41,348
    Location:
    All in your head
    Ratings:
    +25,714
    Should I have said "any more" to help you figure out what time period we live in?