The Jeffery Epstein Case

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by The Night Funky, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    I will go back to my original point. It does not make sense. Maybe after the conviction, but this is a guy who has already gotten off on who he was. This is a guy who can afford and get the most powerful lawyers and the best possible outcome. This is also a guy who could probably cut a deal for information on a lot of other people. If anyone had some hope in this country it would have been him.

    Really, for this idea to work Epstein would have to have somehow been responsible for the lack of monitoring on him. Are you claiming that he set up things so that there were hours where he was ignored by guards so that he knew he could hang himself in a difficult way? If he kicked and thrashed to break bones in his neck that could have caused a guard to look in on him. His method of suicide requires time and lack of observation. Did he set it up that he had no bunkmate? It is one thing to get off of suicide watch, but this seems a bit lucky if you ask me. His first attempt to hang himself in a room designed to make it difficult to hang himself and it goes perfectly?

    It makes a lot more sense that someone choked him out. Maybe he did not put up much of a fight. Maybe someone heard him screaming as was reported. The people responsible for monitoring him were also the ones who would have been the ones responsible for the series of failures that might have allowed someone to strangle him. He was not in enough control to set up a series of failures that gave him time to strangle himself and have no one hear what would have been nervous thrashing he could not control when strangling himself. Your body will reactively gasp and fight for air if you are choking. Even if you want to die, your body will attempt to breathe.

    This means you need suspension and a secure base if you are going to hang yourself. That is something that the design of the rooms is supposed to minimize. Without suspension keeping the pressure on the neck through the closing of a knot or the pressure on the neck you could loosen up a bedsheet enough when your hands instinctively try to open your airway. It would have been a severly difficult thing to bind your hands and make a noose out of the standard bedsheet you are given in prison. The way that would make it more effective would be if he had time to cut it into strips and braid the strips giving him more of a "rope" than a bedsheet. What is also probably true is he might have had two sheets. One to cover the sleeping pad, and the other for himself. Perhaps he could have tied those together.

    The problem arises, and this is where my BDSM knowledge comes in, even if someone else ties you up with sheets they are not very secure. Wriggling and thrashing would loosen them and prolong the hanging. The knots slip and it is hard to get a good amount of pressure to begin with because of friction and the way the sheet works. If you have someone constantly tightening them through pulling, or you have suspended yourself from a height so that you use your weight to tighten the noose it can be done. But if you are suspending yourself and you touch the ground you start drastically effecting the physical pressures on your windpipe and your bodies jerking would allow you to gasp. The ceiling of his cell supposedly did not have a place for the sheet to be attached. That means he used a fixture or had to wrap it around the bed. That means he was suspending himself by not using his feet to prop him up. That is a hard way to kill yourself because your body will shift. Sheets will loosen and you would really have to know what you were doing to be successful.


    On top of that OD would be the best and most lethal way to go in prison, especially given the present popularity of fentanyl. It would be a lot more reliable and comfortable to snort or inject your way to death than to try hanging. You do not need much to OD and with enough of a dose, especially IV, you are done.
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  2. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    He got off once and that was because of a fuck ton of backroom deals and intimidation. It was also nearly two decades before #Me Too. Not even a rich convicted pedo is gonna pull off that kind of hard trick twice.

    You sound like tighties foaming at the mouth about Jussie Smollett.

    Are you even slightly embarrassed enough to reconsider defending this tinhattery now? :marathon:
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  3. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    The thing is you already have vectors of smuggling into these facilities that are organized by crime itself. That would also include crooked COs. You have things like drugs and cell phones that do get in. From what I understand his area was not a bunkhouse style area. It was 2 people cells. Often those cells have solid doors and not bars so other prisoners would not have a good view of what went on inside the cell or even necessarily who entered the cell. We are not allowed to see a diagram of the facility to see problem points, but the guards who are familiar with it would know where to put him and how to arrange it so that they could safely enter his cell unseen in the night and do something. You already have some of the guards who are involved with illegal smuggling, so it is not too hard to plan an execution like this, especially considering the environment is very scheduled and regimented. Even if a guard were to show up to a location unexpected they would not be walking through prisoner cell areas to do their business. They would be in a different area of the compound, and there would be no uncontrolled variables.

    if we are talking about him being killed we are talking about the people who are running the prisons being involved in some way, along with crime. He was fucked. They had him trapped like a rat and could kill him at pretty much any time, and it would be best to do it before he started talking to anyone else. This way they can control the evidence and what gets out.
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  4. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    How many times have powerful people been overlooked again and again when the power structure wanted to? Even Snowden and Assange were able to run, and they were not as connected as having their own Island to hide out on. This guy got picked up and was probably pretty confident he was not going to be taken to prison given he could have gone anyplace. This is a guy who knows how to smuggle people and has a business doing it. It is not out of his skills to find a way to get someplace safe. They got him buy surprise, or they got him because someone else shut him down.

    My thought is you have to get a person who knows this much by surprise or else he can expose people in revenge or as a bargaining chip for preferential treatment. This is a guy who would have had information on many people to bargain with. I will agree that it might have been the fact that he was brazen and open in what he was doing that caused them to need to kill him, but I don't think I guy like that gets caught and arrested without running unless he thinks his lawyers and connections would get him off.

    Weren't they right about Jussie? Not that he has been convicted of setting it up, but it does seem that he did set it up.

    None of us really know, and it is an interesting discussion. BTW as for corruption and conspiracy, that guy is covered in it. His life was about that sort of thing. It is like making up conspiracy theories about a mad scientist we know worked at area 51. If there are any conspiracies in power over money, violence, and sexual perversion this is the dude. This is Tom from the godfather getting caught.
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  5. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    Well there is a certain percentage of "heroes" in the CO field. Epstein was a particularly disgusting dude. The guy had an Island where he could rape and do whatever to people. There is a possibility a dumb hero type thought this was fate putting a huge evil in front of him to stop. I would not bet on the possibility, but I would put it on the list of options.
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  6. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    Oh, and in case anyone is getting all butthurt, Yes I recognize this is all just guessing and theory. I am not saying I could mqake a case in a court of law beyond a shadow of a doubt, and this is just rationalizing from my particular experience and viewpoint. Like most of you I have never been in that particular facility and only have public information. That information may be unreliable in this case due to the power money involved.

    If I were a betting person I would bet that he was murdered if there was god eyes that could see what really happened.
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  7. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    the sad thing is "god eyes" do exist in the form of cameras, which are dirt-cheap these days. But they are like seatbelts - you have to use them, but they are worthless when malfunctioning.
  8. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    Now we have the position he was found in

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/tiny-bone-tell-us-jeffrey-220756003.html

    How would you kill yourself by hanging that way? Your body would spasm involuntarily and you would end up on your side allowing your airway to open. It does not even provide a good amount of pressure to hang yourself with. I was thinking suspension from the back, but this would not break bones above the adams apple. It would actually put pressure on the windpipe below the bones that were broken if what they are saying is true.

    with that information perhaps it does not look so suicidal anymore.

    We will see with more coming out, right @Tuckerfan ?
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  9. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    See: Robin Williams.
  10. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    I am just trying to picture the position of the body given there was not much up high to attach a blanket to securely.

    Robin williams was in his home and had things he could anchor to.
    Robin williams had help that might have been told not to disturb him while a ruckus with epstein should have caused some noise and response. You don't have a do not disturb option in prison.

    Epstein's cell was supposedly solid to not allow for a place to tie things up. The fixtures that might have been used were probably chest height or below. Robin williams did it in a closet doorway. I looked it up as you suggested. Epstein did not have that.
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  11. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Robin anchored to a door knob.
  12. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    Cells don't have door knobs.
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  13. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    No but they have sinks.
  14. His Grace Faceman the Duke of Wordforge

    His Grace Faceman the Duke of Wordforge Keeping a Stiff Upper Lip

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    Most prison hanging are actually self strangulations as the inmate “hangs” from a low tie off point - sink, drain, toilet, desk bed.
  15. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    For future reference the term is "ligature point"
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  16. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Is there a term for an unhealthy attraction to Ghislaine?
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  17. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    Probably, but she's over the age of consent so I'll let you off.
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  18. His Grace Faceman the Duke of Wordforge

    His Grace Faceman the Duke of Wordforge Keeping a Stiff Upper Lip

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    Maybe it is in where you live land.
  19. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    Might be a local thing to be sure, but it's used as a catch all term when risk assessing an environment for any such fixtures. Showers, door catches, curtain rails, taps are all common examples too. There's a particularly ingenious technique I've seen used involving the gap between a door and it's frame and magazines which actively relies on the person panicking and changing their mind.
  20. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    from the reader "comments" section:

    "What can a tiny bone tell us about Jeffrey Epstein"....That it looked huge in an adolescent girls hands?
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  21. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    It appears that two more victims have come forward.
  22. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Coroner says "suicide."
  23. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    Corrected. :bergman:
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  24. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    The same artist supposedly painted this.

    FB_IMG_1566019450387.jpg
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  25. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    More info I saw on the artist.

    She didn't work for Epstein nor sell him the painting of Bill Clinton.

    Her words: "In 2012, as a grad student at the New York Academy of Art, I painted pictures of Presidents Bill Clinton and Bush as part of my Master’s thesis. When the school put on a fundraiser at the Tribeca Ball that year, they sold my painting to one of the attendees. I had no idea who the buyer was at the time. As with most of my paintings, I had completely lost track of this piece when it was sold seven years ago. So it was a complete surprise to me to learn yesterday that it wound up in Epstein’s home."
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  26. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    If those guards were sleeping instead of doing their checks hopefully they end up in a cell themselves.
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  27. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    SO! The examiners have determined that it was suicide by hanging. But does that put any conspiracies to rest? Nobody had to kill Epstein if they just allowed him to kill himself! :chris: Give him strong sheets, FUBAR cameras and no guards....and he will kill himself. In the immediate aftermath take some time to circle the wagons and get your cover story straight and you are good-to-go! :shrug: Or maybe PETER BRADY did it! He did break Carol's favorite vase so I wouldn't put anything past him.
  28. GhostEcho

    GhostEcho Christian Conservative (Republican)

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    Eugene Gu's three claims to fame are:

    1. Suing Donald Trump for blocking him on Twitter and winning. [Kind of cool]
    2. Sexually assaulting a woman and then using fake Twitter accounts to harass her. [Add him to THE PILE]
    3. Having his medical residency at Vanderbilt University Medical Center terminated early due to lack of performance.

    Any similarity between Eugene Gu and a "respected doctor" is purely the figment of someone's imagination.
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  29. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    kind of like any "doctor" with a theology degree.
  30. TheBurgerKing

    TheBurgerKing The Monarch of Flavor

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    "Jefferey Epstein clearly comitted suicide, case closed, now I must return to my loving wife and children whom I am 100% confident that they are still alive and have not been trafficked to some saudi prince, because I know what to say." ~~ The medical examiner.