The San Francisco murals and the suicide of the left

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by armalyte, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    One of the best articles out of globalresearch for quite a while.

    Outtakes:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/san-francisco-murals-suicide-left/5682193

    (PS quote function works shoddy for some reason sorry DS)
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  2. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Er, yeah. Nobody has any right not to be offended.
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  3. Quest

    Quest Hail, Columbia Staff Member Administrator

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    I agree, the murals should be preserved. Education is incomplete without confronting the more unpleasant aspects of history.
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  4. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Johnstone is pretty good. I'm far from agreeing with everything she writes but she's entertaining and provokes some thoughts.
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  5. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    This article reads like a beta cuck from Reddit wrote this. Would it have killed them to at least feign neutrality?

    Also:

    Somehow, I get the distincr feeling the author brinks this up for alt-woke point and likely has written about how the Muslim Ban was a good thing.

    Uh-huh.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  6. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    ... why do debate articles need to be "neutral"?

    "Neutrality" is always a lie in any social matters anyway. "Neutrality" in this world is "accepting the current world order."

    I like people and magazines who, unlike the New York Times (for example,) won't try to lie about not taking sides.
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  7. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I, too, find these murals offensive! Tear them down!







    :diacanu:


    Seriously, I don't give two shits about a mural on a high school wall in San Francisco (although it is a significant and valuable piece of art with some history behind it). What's interesting is that the acquisition of political power simply through being offended continues to accelerate. And I think the left will eventually find they've opened Pandora's Box by catering to it, as it will consume them as well. And since this pattern is likely to take hold only where the left already reigns, I think it will ultimately be to their detriment. Fine with me.
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  8. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    People can be offended by anything they want no matter how stupid. They even have the right to screech about what ever they want though everyone else is free to ignore them as the lunatics they are. What they don't have a right to do is use violence and destroy property which is not theirs.

    How did you get to middle age without understanding such a basic concept?
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  9. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    Here's a more nuanced, less screechy article that does a better job of articulating the debate from both sides.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sf...ces-mural-dilemma-free-speech-or-14065213.php

    A quick search showed there were students in the sixties who were protesting the mural even back then.

    Like, I can get that the artist--a Commie--had good intentions in the 30s, when the school was probably more white than it is now, but there's a LOOOOOOOOT of art out there depicting dead Native Americans and I can only imagine how overwhelming that can get to a group that has been all but erased out of our American history.
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  10. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    Except no one used violence, walnut. The school board took a vote and decided to do away with it diplomatically.

    Quit drinking.
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  11. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Yep, and that's exactly my point.

    Schism, schism, wonderful schism. Keep fighting each other, it makes me :j:
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  12. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    I guess I agree with the middle part of your post?

    If I'm thinking:
    • unquestioning submittal to authority with no fair ideological debate (which is different from just 'authoritarian'; I might call myself authoritarian,)
    • scapegoating people you disagree with on grounds of sex and race,
    • cheering for censorship on different ideas,
    • intentionally fighting against a class perspective in public discourse,
    • championing segregation,
    • openly supporting wars of plunder on third-world countries
    • ... and the mixed other tools of the people in question...
    Not thinking "left wing" here. Thinking more "pure fascism."
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  13. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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  14. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    The missions are a very significant part of California history and the project of building a model one is a great exercise for students. It requires time, patience, planning, historical research, and creativity. I wouldn't get rid of it.
    You must've missed the part where I said I didn't care two shits about it. :shrug:
    :lol:
  15. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Well, can't speak for Paladin, but I support Communism because... I'm a Communist?

    And you know what, I can support other people with other ideas if we have shared goals limited or otherwise, even if our motivations might be vastly different. For example, many libertarians talk endlessly about 'freedom of speech' or 'freedome to debate' whereas I don't even recognize the concept. I recognize the necessity of speech, the necessity of open debate.

    Then again I do realize you're trolling but you make yourself a somewhat amusing limited target...
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  16. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Is 37 middle aged?
    And why do you think I support destroying something here? Is it possible you're a retard and you jumped to a conclusion instead?
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  17. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Yeah, pretty much.
  18. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I'm thoroughly anti-Communist, but I'll try not to hold it against you. :diacanu:

    And, just 'cause I'm curious...You live in Sweden, no? For many in the west, the Nordic countries are held up as a kind of paragon of liberal democracy: high living standards, high degree of personal freedom, transparent, responsive, and even-handed government, generous social welfare benefits, high degree of economic equality, and still economically productive and prosperous. Why are you an avowed Communist in the face of that? What about your society is so unacceptable, that you'd favor such a radical restructuring of it?
  19. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    :itsokay:

    You'll mature out of such silliness. :yes:
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  20. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    At 46 years of age? :P
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  21. Amaris

    Amaris Witchy Woman

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    Agreed. This one's a little tougher, because unlike confederate statues that glorified the leadership of the southern states during the Civil War, this mural was meant to do good. It was created to show how people of color were treated, and were still being treated. Hell, we're only just now starting to really address the fuckery of white elitism and it's dominating culture. Still, if people find it offensive, more importantly if people of color find the depiction offensive, despite the original good intentions of the artist, then it does need to come down. Catalog it, take lots of photos, put it in context, and remove the actual mural.
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  22. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Some people are late bloomers. :clyde: I mean, it took the Soviets what, eighty years to figure out that communism is shit? China took about seventy, VietNam about thirty . . . you'll get there.
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  23. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Trying to be brief here. Sorta failed.

    Sweden has serious, serious problems, all of which caused by Imperialist Capitalism and none of which caused by anything I'd call Socialism. Postmodernist disingenuous trash ideology? We wrote the playbook. Wonder why I'm good at dismantling it? Seen it, know all the ins and outs, know exactly what it aims to pervert, had to deal with rabid identitarian scum since the early nineties.

    Sweden is controlled, perhaps more so than any nation in the world, by international Capital running a moral extortion scheme on the petty-bourgeoise virtue signaling liberals, with the degenerate lumpenproletariat as the holy cow, all to serve its global financial interests. Its vaunted social service system, its civil liberties, its living standards, its economic equality and its prosperity are all in stages of accelerating collapse, mirroring the death throes of the current world order.

    I'm Communist precisely because I support the productive forces and the virile classes of society - the ones holding real actual power which can change a system for the better - against the parasites profiting on them. Well, that and other things; it's basically a world view. The bourgeoisie bought the lumpenproletariat with a Big Mac and an iPhone while shaming the middle class into fearful silence. They are the enemy.

    This would be material for a whole new thread. Maybe I could start "The Situation In Sweden As Per 2019," if someone would find it enlightening.
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  24. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Trying to put it basic here.

    "People can be offended", well yeah, we're beyond questioning that.

    "People have a right to screesh", really? Do people have that right in North Korea? Do people have a right to ignore lunatics in all countries? Aren't you just saying "people should have a right to x y z?"

    The problem with that assessment is that nobody has any rights in the first place. Rights are based on power and violence. If you own a phone, I take it from you and refuse to give it back, You no longer own it unless you beat me up (exercising violence) or call the cops (exercising violence through the legal system) to reaffirm your right to own it. No "rights" anyone has in this society have any meaning outside this context.

    The police enforce the system you are part of by stealing back your phone. All rights of various people have resulted from the shifting class dynamics of society and all represent social contracts in a state of flux. Until we have transcended class it's pointless to talk human rights, because the concept demands a unified people.

    The only situation where I'd say we might talk about people's rights, earned by the nation's people in conflict with other nations' people, is in all-out war, and even there it's shoddy.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  25. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Expand on this, please. What do you mean "trash ideology?"

    If the dominant ideology in your country is producing health, freedom, stability, and prosperity, how is that trash? Bluntly speaking, do you know of any communist regime anywhere that's done nearly as well?
    Hmmm. You seem to be describing a declining state of affairs in Sweden. Is this really the case?

    I checked some stats...per capita GDP seems to be increasing. People--on average--are becoming wealthier.

    What's the problem with social services? Again, the Nordic countries are seen as the "gold standard" by many in the world. I know there have been some recent reforms. But what problems do they have that communism could fix?

    Sweden's #7 on the most recent world happiness scale. Yes, any such scale is somewhat subjective, but there you are.

    I've read of recent problems stemming from immigration and rising crime, but the country is still--comparatively--safe.

    Are you sure the current order is actually dying? It looks to me like it could be heading for some realignment, but dying?
    How do you envision changing the system for the better? What features/qualities do you want to improve?
    I'd like to hear more. I doubt I'll agree, but I'd be interested in hearing this perspective.
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  26. Tuttle

    Tuttle Khaaaaaaaaaaann !!!

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    Me too, I'm particularly interested in which species' image he plans to model the creatures that will live within his simulation.
    :corn:
  27. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Noli Me Tangere. Administrator Overlord

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    “Triggered”. Jesus, what a bunch of bed wetters.
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  28. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    Speaking of communism, do they have such a thing as "everybody's fault" auto insurance in Russia?
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  29. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Noted. Won't make a bloody treatise about it but I'll take it on in a separate thread, might not get around to it until weekend tho.

    Five AM, 3 hours sleep, 8 total thus far Mon-Wed, omw to job to lift twelve more metric tons of steel. Yay me...
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  30. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    San Francisco has far bigger shit to worry about. Literally.