This is the problem with many Star Wars "fans"

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by We Are Borg, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. The Night Monkey

    The Night Monkey Definitely not Peter Parker

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    It’s not like the video is that long, but whatever. They predicted jokingly or not that certain things would have to be in the movie Solo. Han, would be an orphan, Harrison would be a father figure and probably betray him. Rich predicted the love interest would betray him further cementing him as a smuggler. That he would meet Chewie while being in an imperial prison. Chewie would be in shadow and Han would hear him roar and think it’s a monster, then Chewie would come out of the shadows and Han would save his life and they would become friends. Chewie would have the same kind of handcuffs he had in ANH and that’s why he hates them. Death Maul would show up because what characters from the prequels could show up? AT-ATs! They would show the Kessel run and the falcon would jump through a black hole or something to do it faster than anybody else. Lightsabers! You’d think that a person who can speed read would have no problem reading 100 pages though.
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  2. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    None of those predictions are terribly surprising and many of them had been discussed by other people for quite some time prior to the movie being released. If you go back through (and no, I don't expect you to do this) the Blade Runner 2049 thread, you'll see that I speculated on what the film might be about. Apparently, I got a number of things right. Not that this is particularly hard to do. Stories tend to fall into certain basic patterns (or tropes) and when you're dealing with a genre film that's built on material from existing works, it's fairly easy to get a number of things right. Keep your comments vague enough, and you can claim even greater accuracy.

    And reading 100 pages on a computer is different than reading 100 pages in a book. For one thing, it's faster to turn the pages in a book than it is to wait for the pages to load on a computer, even with a decent connection.
  3. The Night Monkey

    The Night Monkey Definitely not Peter Parker

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    Yes, but the narrative that they have been pushing with Star Wars in particular and over the years about superhero films in general is that often times it's the same formula over and over. Yes there's the heroes journey, I don't expect people to deviate from that, but Star Wars has basically told their story. There's not much more you can do with this Star Wars story, the sequels rely heavily on the OT characters, nobody really cares about the new characters and Solo was completely unnecessary because everyone knew that those elements had to be in the movie. The criticized Rogue One quite a bit and I disagreed with them. At least that movie tried to do something different. TFA was a rehash of ANH and TLJ, while it also tried to "subvert people's expectations" , it failed and was filled with lousy writing. Do an Obiwan movie and you can deviate from that a little bit and maybe you can subvert expectaction in a really good way. That has been their consistent message.

    Mike is a little more forgiving, but a lot of the same gripes are hoisted onto DSC as well.

    So yeah, certain things are predictable and probably should be. Superman comes from krypton, he's sent to Earth, raised in Kansas by the Kents, is a Boy Scout, works at the Daily Planet, falls in love with Lois Lane. Those are a given, the rest is in the story. If you make Superman a dark brooding soul like Batman, that's not Superman. While you could do that story, if your name is Zack Snyder, you're probably not going to do it well. If you wanna "subvert expectations " with Star Wars, TLJ was not the right way to do it.
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  4. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    In an alternate dimension inside your head!! :lol:

    Girls love Rey, boys love Kylo, the merchandise has made billions.

    "But the hardcore fans...".

    Are a sliver of the whole audience.
    And the bitter crybabies with Youtube channels are a sliver of that sliver.
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  5. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    TFA gets a bit of a pass because we were all so excited to see what some of our favorite cinematic characters of all time were up to, and even though it was basically a shot for shot remake of ANH, people were generally pleased

    TLJ was pretty bad, just awful really. There's a lot of problems with that movie, but I get that some people overlook them and it's most likely because of nostalgia, and that's fine

    Will be interesting to see where ROS goes, I'll no doubt be there to watch it. IT's kind of sad that this ends the Skywalker saga but then again, maybe it's time to move on. IT'll be tough to make a Star Wars movie as bad as TLJ, that's for sure
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019 at 3:15 PM
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  6. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    I attribute the failure of Solo to the fact it was released too soon after TLJ, which was a disappointment for a lot of people.

    Personally I liked TFA, Rogue One and Solo. So three out of four ain't bad.

    Far as the criticism of J.J goes, he's revitalized Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars. All three franchises were dead as a door nail before he came aboard and breathed new life back into them. I can't wait to see what he does with the Rise of Skywalker.
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  7. The Night Monkey

    The Night Monkey Definitely not Peter Parker

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    Holy shit, kids love toys, no way?
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  8. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    *Point sails over NM's head*
  9. The Night Monkey

    The Night Monkey Definitely not Peter Parker

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    The point is you’ll eat up anything they put out. It could be Star Wars: Dog Shit and you’ll eat it up and lick the plate. They know that and there’s just enough of people like that they can make crap and people will eat it and ask for more. It doesn’t have to be good, it just has to say Star Wars in the title or Star Trek or Ghostbusters or whatever. You guys are lemmings.
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  10. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Yeah @Diacanu masturbating furiously and having several meltdowns to that horrifically bad Ghostbusters movie really destroyed his credibility, I hate to say
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  11. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Yeah, you're right, Solo was my favorite Star Wars ever, and I saw it 6 times at the theater!
    Wait, what was that, fact based reality?
    I only saw it once, and rank it down near Revenge of The Sith?
    Well, that can't be, that doesn't fit with Nightmonkey's narrative that he absorbed from RLM cuz he can't form his own opinions without help from Youtube.
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  12. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    "Fantasy world" :lol:
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  13. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  14. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    If Kate McKinnon doesn't make you whip your dick out, there's something wrong with YOU.
    :shrug:
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  15. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    I prefer not to objectify women like you apparently do

    Pretty gross comment kiddo
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  16. The Night Monkey

    The Night Monkey Definitely not Peter Parker

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    More like RLM is saying what I’m thinking, but they, I’ll concede, articulate it better because they know more about filmmaking than I do.
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  17. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, there are only a handful of basic plots available to any writer. Though, to be fair, the repetitiveness of certain things can be quite tiring. For example, we really don't need another Superman or Batman movie which covers their origin. Sure, if you're going to do a dramatic break from the previous stories, then tell the origin story. Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.

    And don't blame the writers/directors for this issue, if you've not watched the "An Evening With Kevin Smith" series, which are talks that he gives at colleges, they're worth checking out, even if you don't like Smith. Because he describes the insanely stupid crap that he (and others) have to go through to get a movie done. The exec in charge of the ill-fated Superman movie that Smith worked on demanded that Supes not fly and that he had to fight giant spiders (but he couldn't call them spiders).

    Granted, no one wants to see a film where Luke shows up at Han and Leia's place and tells them that he's putting the gang back together for one last big adventure, but there were still stories to be told (but with Fisher dead and the characters of Han and Luke dead, that's impossible). The problem, I think, is that when Lucas made the OT, the classic movie serials were still fresh in his mind (he originally didn't want to do Star Wars at all, but Flash Gordon and only did Star Wars because he couldn't get the rights), but when it came time to make the PT, he'd largely forgotten them, and guys like JJ had never really watched them, just the films Lucas made.

    I've listened to the SF radio dramas from that era, and they have the same spirit and lightness to them that the OT did, but nothing since in the series really has. (Also want to point out that many of the folks doing the old serials did try to get the science right, the problem was that there was little known about the other planets in the solar system, so they just had to guess.) Had the folks in charge of doing the NT gone back to the source material of the original movie serials, I think the NT would be vastly different.


    Probably not with the way it was done in the NT, but that's not the only way it could have been done. Elements in the NT would have to be in an alternative version of the film, but not a lot.
    Slow down there a minute, cowboy. The original cast had maybe five minutes of screen time, combined, in the first movie. Luke only shows up for about the last 10 seconds of the movie and I don't remember him saying anything.
    Put the crack pipe down. Lots of people love the new characters. Both Rey and Finn are hugely popular with millions of people. Vader, Jr.'s not all that popular, I'll admit.
    The problem with Solo is that it was finished by a director who's a master at putting movies together like they're Ikea furniture, but not someone who can make the expected seem unexpected. Had they given it to somebody like Nolan, we'd have gotten a damned good movie, even if it had all the things that we knew had to be in there. (See his Batman Begins as proof of this.)
    Haven't seen it yet, but I've never heard anyone criticize it. I'm sure they're out there, but not having seen the film, I don't feel qualified to weigh in on it.

    Which is to be expected when you hand a film like that over to JJ. He's got a great director's eye, but his story-telling abilities are weak, IMHO.

    That seems to be the general consensus, though many would just describe it as "weak."

    The problem with an Obi Wan movie is that he's got only two important roles in the series: Fuck up training Anakin, and babysit Luke until he's old enough to take out the Empire. That's it. If you want to do a big, grand movie that gets lots of butts in seats, you've got a careful needle to thread. It has to be entertaining, it can't detract from the other movies which have come before, and the ending has to be satisfying without defeating the Empire. What we're most likely to get is something like one of those crappy movies they did in the '50s about Jesus' disciples before they ever met him.

    And DSC handled them far, far better than the PT or the NT did.

    Apparently.
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  18. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    But you saying I flog my trouser meat to the movie in the first place was adorable G rated fare for the whole family.
    :rolleyes:
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  19. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    It's unfortunate you can't see the difference between the two and are now trying to minimize the impact of what you said about Kate McKinnon
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  20. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Walk me through it, professor.
    :corn:
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  21. Tuttle

    Tuttle Khaaaaaaaaaaann !!!

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    Don't know Kate McKinnon so searched - she looks just like over a dozen Fox news on-screen employees.
  22. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Okay, now THAT is just a gross comparison.
    I'm sure Ten Lubak will be all over you for it.

    (:lol: :diacanu:)
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  23. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Tuttle didn't come close to sexualizing Ms McKinnon as you did with your vulgar comment

    Do you really think that's appropriate?

    Even oldfella uses innuendo, and he's pretty bad. You're even worse, well done
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  24. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Okay, Andy Kaufman.
    We believe you're a wrestler.
    :pathead:
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  25. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    So you do think it's appropriate then, noted

    Don't really have a leg to stand on now, you Liberal Crusader you
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  26. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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  27. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    Allow myself to quote myself:


    Knock it off or take it to the Red Room. :brood:
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  28. The Night Monkey

    The Night Monkey Definitely not Peter Parker

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    It sounds like we (I include RLM) are all on the same page, basically. We share a lot of the same criticisms and concerns. I think it comes down to preferences.

    Look, it’s their job to talk about these type of things and if you watch the videos, it is a conversation and they work what works and what doesn’t.

    The thing that drive me nuts is there some fans who refuse to acknowledge it and think the sun rises and sets with JJ Abrahams. Yes he “saved” Star Trek and Star Wars, so what? Any number of directors could have done it and probably done it better.

    They think he’s the next Spielberg, he’s not, Nolan fits that role a lot better. That’s why I bring these things up, not to be a jerk, but get people to think because you have a jackass that does want to be a jerk by starting a thread saying, “this is the problem with Star Wars fans” :hurr: all because they don’t worship at the alter of JJ and dare to criticize his movies.
  29. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    I always liked the idea of Han Solo and Chewbacca mentioned I think it was in the Star Wars Role Playing Game. The backstory was that Han Solo was an Imperial Academy graduate and in fact a rising star in Imperial ranks but abandoned all that when he freed an imprisoned Chewie. And of course Chewie then dedicated his life to Solo.
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  30. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Sheithforge Formerly Important

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    I mean, I could debate till the cows come home about coulda, woulda, shoulda but at the end of the day JJ brought home the bacon which is the driver as to what does and doesn't get greenlit in Hollywood.

    Even "bad" Trek brings in new fans. I came into the fandom through goddamned Enterprise for fuck's sake. Who am I to piss on anyone's tastes?*

    *Except for Voyager fans *waves to Mewa*

    Nope.

    He's an entertainer.

    Original Star Wars was a popcorn action flick that happened to have amazing special effects and a simple enough story that anyone could follow.

    I'll grant you Star Trek's gotten the rep oof being for "smart people," but even with the most consistently well-written DS9, you have shit like "Profit and Lace" to its name.

    JJ generated much needed interest. Because who the hell thought we'd have a new Trek show within a decade of Enterprise's cancellation? Let alone two? I didn't. :shrug: if it took three popcorn flicks to get from there to here, it's an acceptable trade IMO.
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