Thoughts re: ST: Generations.

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by Diacanu, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Wait a minute....I dunno why this never occurred to me...

    What exactly was the hurry for Kirk and Picard to get out of the Nexus?

    If time doesn't exist in there, and they can wish themselves out anywhere and anywhen....why not stay in there weeks, months, or YEARs if need be to come up with a better plan than just running at Soran, and punching him?

    :chris:
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  2. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Because movies are only ~2.5 hours long

    Great fucking movie, never understood the people that don't like it
  3. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    And if they could exit at any time, how about a week before the movie so Picard could drop a line to his brother to let him know to change the batteries in the smoke alarms at Chateau Picard. Then, when the Amargosa Observatory comes into sight, Picard can say "Target photon torpedoes on the observatory..."

    Problems solved.
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  4. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    As that wise philosopher Marty McFly once said...

    "Wait a minute! I've got all the time in the world! I've got a time machine!"
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  5. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    You just do a cut. :shrug:

    *5 years later*

    (Picard and Kirk are looking over a papier-mâché model of Veridian 3 with little red and blue play flags stabbed into it connected by strands of yarn*

    Kirk- I think we've nailed it, let's go! *Claps hands*
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  6. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Speaking of Generations, I busted a gut laughing at a very well-placed sound effect Red Letter Media added in the section Picard's Priceless Ceramic Thing (starting at 2:43)...



    Yep, that Kurlan naiskos is real important, all right!

    :rofl:
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  7. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Yeah, the bit about the replicated clothes always bugged me too.
    Like, did the computer follow them through the ship with sensors, then route the patterns to the nearest replicator, which ended up being in the transporter room?
    Or could TNG replicators edit clothes right into the transporter beam by then?
  8. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    It's unfortunate that Generations made time travel a part of the movie, even in the strange form of the Nexus. Time travel basically makes Soran's entire plan useless, since as you guys have noted, Kirk and Picard can choose to pop out whenever is most convenient for smacking him around a little.
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  9. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I always read this as being because in the Nexus, it's always Christmas Eve.

    Funny moment, but given it's apparently a one of a kind ancient artefact I assume that the original is sitting in some Federation museum and that's just a replicated copy.​
  10. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

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    B&B couldn’t think of anything else.
  11. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Listen here, Jack

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    I don't know why Picard wouldn't take the time to consider a better plan, but I'd assume he chose to leave the Nexus as close at possible to the moment he entered to avoid corrupting the timeline any more than absolutely necessary. Temporal prime directive and all that. :shrug:
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  12. Tererun

    Tererun Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    The nexus always runs into the same problem of the matrix IMO. How the fuck do you know you actually escaped, or that it is just another part of the nexus feeding you what continues to trap you inside? The Nexus gives you what you wish for, and clearly pickard wishes to continue his journey through space. This is such an integral part of his character multiple episodes of the series were dedicated to him making that choice over other options he desired. At least the matrix tried to show some humans would reject the perfect world for one with strife and loss. They never even addressed that in generations.

    You put that idea next to the fact that the nexus seemed to have a limit to proximity where you had to touch it to get in to it, and that it did not seem to put people into a safe location in the beginning when they had to be rescued from the ship flying into it. Why was it all of a sudden able to place pickard and kirk so far away from it when it did not have range like that in the beginning.

    Then, why is guinen partially in there to begin with, but the bad guy is not in there trying to stop them, but then maybe he was in there since they never got out and he would have been a fragment fighting against them anyway? Time was not an issue inside the nexus, why did they ever need to escape the nerxus to have time shifts?
  13. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Ow, my brain. :dizzy:
  14. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Metal health

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    If there was an "echo" of Guinan left behind in the Nexus, then there must be echos of Kirk and Picard bopping around in there. The three of them having adventures in dream logic. For that matter, where was Soren's echo?
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  15. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Kirk, Picard, and Guinan? The three of them is an "adventure" I don't want to imagine. :diacanu:
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  16. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Good answer!
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  17. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    I always got the gist the Guinan echo was created by a transporter split from Scotty trying to beam them out during a flicker.
    BUT, that would also mean there's a Soran echo.
    My head-canon is Soran's fantasy was being Alex DeLarge, and Caligula, and Guinan didn't want Picard & Kirk to see that shit, so blocked it off. ;)

    Although, by Kirk preventing himself being pulled out of the Nexus, there's a time-copy of Kirk in there now that can wish himself out.
    My head-canon for that, is he turned into Chris Pine.
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  18. Faceman

    Faceman Negative Creep

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  19. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    I've been asking that question since November 1994. :(
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  20. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM Conversant in dark parables

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    GEN is ambitious but very flawed, but I still like it better than any of the following movies. I dunno, maybe someday FC will click for me.
  21. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    I think the "echo" of Guinan helps explain why she seems to have some 4th dimensional insights that we saw throughout TNG. I don't think it's that her species has that as an inherent trait, but rather all of the survivors of her species gained that trait by being ripped out of the Nexus.
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  22. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    Other than Tasha Yar should have been dead in the "correct" timeline, there really wasn't any insight that Guinan had that couldn't have been chalked up to just being around for 400 or so years and having normal person insight. As much as I like Whoopi, I think TNG would have been better served for almost everything she did or said to have been given to Troi as a character.
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  23. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    I mean, Q seemed to be fucking terrified of Guinan, implying she had some sort of special abilities.
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  24. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey official beverage of antifa

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    I remember a classmate getting hold of an early script draft a few months before it was in theatres...
    That got passed around like a tiajuana bible.
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  25. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    My fan-canon for that is he once gave her the Riker test, and she beat the shit out of him.
    Then she de-powered herself, and never told him.
  26. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    True, but that's a separate isssue from her level of demonstrated insight, which generally was stuff like "Riker, you need to put on your big boy pants," "Troi, you can still be a counselor if you're not empathic," and "Wesley and Geordi, get a clue about women."
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  27. We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse

    We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse Probably a Dual

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    Yeah, it is a good answer.

    I've found that a lot Trek (whatever incarnation you're watching) falls on its face because the writers neglect to add a few lines of dialogue that could easily explain major plotholes.

    Let's call it Trek Writer Syndrome or some such thing...
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  28. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    The plot hole I have more trouble with is the fact that Soran has to blow up a sun to get into the Nexus because it's impossible to get onto it from a ship ... but a ship is how Soran got there in the first place.
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  29. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Listen here, Jack

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    Eh, sometimes I'm fine with the writers assuming the audience knows the source material well enough to fill in the blanks on their own. This isn't the 60's where we need to watch Batman receive a call from Commissioner Gordon, flip the secret switch to open the door to the Batcave, slide down the costume changing Batpoles, get into the Batmobile, start the engines, drive all the way into Gotham, park in front of police headquarters, and walk into Gordon's office, every. single. episode.
    I imagine it's harder to guarantee a ship will survive long enough for the occupant to safely enter the Nexus and remain there. Must be some reason Guinan and Soran didn't just stay in the Nexus in the first place, and why everyone on all three ships didn't end up there as well.
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  30. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Soren's echo may have been in there for all we know. While Guinan had some kind of connection to it that she had come to peace with, the same separation could have been part of what drove him mad trying to get back. And as Guinan described it I think their echo in the Nexus was a result of being pulled out whereas Kirk and Picard voluntarily left.

    I heard a theory once that I like which is that Q powers don't work with El-Aurians for some reason, and so the Q are the ones who sent the Borg after them.
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