Time to End the Climate Gravy Train

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Marso, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    26,077
    Ratings:
    +27,876
    All you just said is factually completely false.

    In addition, pointing out that your scope of normalcy includes four mass extinctions wouldn't be a great argument against climate fear anyway, even if any of your claims were factually correct.
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    26,138
    Location:
    N.C.
    Ratings:
    +24,043
    My assertion has always been that lab mice cause cancer and that people with short toes are smarter than people with long toes, but that hasn't done me any good either. :shrug:
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,294
    Location:
    here there be dragons
    Ratings:
    +11,659
    Being overdue for a Yellowstone eruption is a media creation. USGS says otherwise. Best estimates are 10,000-150,000 years from now. Bad consequences of climate change are here today and going to get worse over the next ~35 years, minimum, absent drastic emissions cuts and geoengineering.

    This time scale is just a tad more urgent.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
  4. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    13,729
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +17,061
    You're never going to get an answer to this one, because it completely shreds the whackjob's argument.

    Estimates for the oil and gas industry range from $75- to $90-trillion of global GDP.

    I'm pretty sure the whole "climatology" racket doesn't even come close to that figure.

    In spite of the facts, the idiots are going to perpetuate the nonsense that being environmentally-friendly is a cash windfall and all the scientists and environmentalist are in it to make a quick buck!
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 3
  5. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    13,729
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +17,061
    Put another way... the way our current economy is set up, there's far more money to be made in destroying humanity's habitat than in trying to save it.

    Ergo, if the "environmentalists" were simply in it for the money, they'd all side with the oil and gas companies.

    (Fuck, that first sentence is depressing.)
    • Sad Sad x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,839
    Location:
    Idaho
    Ratings:
    +13,524
    Don't need all that. Right there in Marietta GA is all you need- the genuine article, and they ship all the way cross-country. Just like I used to get in W.A. as a kid. :)

    https://australianbakerycafe.com/
  7. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    23,755
    Ratings:
    +27,005
    Coward. :(
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. Tuttle

    Tuttle Khaaaaaaaaaaann !!!

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    8,762
    Location:
    not NY
    Ratings:
    +4,758
    Google "Solyndra executives."

    Or anecdotally, google [Lombard Odier Al Gore], my last bank (Lombard Odier) has been fleecing euroland cultists for decades after joining up in partnership with Al Gore to sell all manner of private investment vehicles, that exploited the "world will come to an end if you don't make money on solar and wind etc. …" investment premise. I brought some of those products to America.
    I wouldn't give you their names even if I knew them (names of private clients are the most protected asset of any Swiss Private Bank, and their NY lawyer would have no need to know). But I did see all the financials and reporting for 2002 to 2011 or most of those years. I witnessed the sales of these private capital profiteers on boondoggle investment after boondoggle investment (fortunately, private equity usually cashes out at public offering so as the failed promises of solar/wind became apparent they had sold out and were already onto the next).

    An industry of "experts" has exploited the government green gravy train as well, albeit in a smaller scale (more parasitic in nature than venture capital).
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    13,729
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +17,061
    From Wikipedia:

    From my post:

    Bolded and underlined for people who can't do math.
    • Winner Winner x 8
  10. Tuttle

    Tuttle Khaaaaaaaaaaann !!!

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    8,762
    Location:
    not NY
    Ratings:
    +4,758
    Dude you're arguing against something I never said, and (I'm pretty sure) anything I probably even believe. Did you think I view the oil majors as a benign influence in the world? If any of their propaganda overlaps with my observations - attack my fact/arguments denigrating "zero emission" sources and "alternative energy," not the coincidence.

    I've always been a conservationist (clean water and air, etc.), strong advocate for nuclear and (where practical) hydro. Do *you* think solar has been a success? Have wind farms been a net plus in more than half the areas that've adopted them? Answer to both is a resounding "no" - just check out the oil majors interest in "greenifying" their image with that alternative crap if you weren't already suspicious of their motives.

    Although last century they did a lot of good - they had their time (interesting thread about the development of Oman's oil), but the past few decades they've been as exploitive as any capitalistic enterprise in recent history (except modern tech is coming on strong).

    Absent fantasy, you could not construct a scenario where we're off this rock during the 21st century having achieve the quality of life and technological progress we've achieved without the mass exploitation of fossil fuels that occurred during the 20th.
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 2
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  11. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    17,575
    Ratings:
    +16,500
    Furthermore, in terms of geological disasters, the Cascadia Subduction Zone is a more pressing concern than Yellowstone, and even that, which is slated to wipe out Seattle and Portland, is largely media fearmongering.
    Climate change, however, is fucking us in the ass right now. While it's just the tip, it apparently has the common coutesy of give you a goddamn reach around.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    20,916
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Ratings:
    +19,299
    No one denies that, and it's raised humanity to a position where we can now seriously enact technology and policies to use that boost as the foundation for centuries of successful civilisation to come.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    20,916
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Ratings:
    +19,299
    In all their photos the pies are on plates accompanied by potato crisps which makes me feel the photographer got a memo to take a photo of "pie and chips" and badly misinterpreted things. :lol:
    • Funny Funny x 4
  14. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    27,101
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +38,685
    I think your figures might be a bit off, since the valuation for fossil fuel companies is "only" about $4 trillion. Certainly a shitload more than what academia has. (The total US economy is around $17 Trillion, IIRC.)

    Fun fact: If 15 of the largest containerships were converted to hydrogen, it would be the equivalent of taking every car off the road on the planet. No shit. There are approximately 50K containerships operating in the world right now. If governments were to require that all new containerships built were powered by hydrogen (or some other green energy source) and that containerships built more than 10 years ago would have to be scrapped, we would see a tremendous reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. Given that some of the largest ships can carry tens of thousands of containers, whatever price increases this would cause for shipping goods would likely be marginal on a per item basis.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer I’m Scott Malkenson and I have Diabetes

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    26,687
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +19,423
    Isn’t the problem with hydrogen power is that it’s not stable enough and it might blow the planet up?
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • teh baba teh baba x 1
  16. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    27,101
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +38,685
    WTF are you smoking?
    :chardman:

    A gallon of liquid hydrogen has less energy than a gallon of gasoline.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • teh baba teh baba x 1
  17. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer I’m Scott Malkenson and I have Diabetes

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    26,687
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +19,423
    Okay. The other thing I’ve heard is that we don’t the infrastructure for fueling stations for hydrogen powered cars. I’m legitimately asking because these are the things I’ve seen in documentaries about it. I’m all for hydrogen power.
  18. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    27,101
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +38,685
    Note, however, I was not talking about hydrogen-powered cars, but cargo ships. There's only about 50K of them, as opposed to 1.4 billion cars. It's a lot easier to switch 50K of anything to something else than it is to switch 1.4 billion of something.

    As for converting cars over to hydrogen, the infrastructure issue really isn't all that large of a deal. IIRC, California is the only place where you can buy a hydrogen-powered car, and all the dealerships which sell said cars have hydrogen fueling stations there. Mandating that at least X amount of cars produced after 2025 have to be hydrogen-powered will give dealerships enough time to install hydrogen pumps (as well as enable hydrogen producers to scale up). Couple that with regulations that stipulate all new gas stations, and ones engaging in significant remodeling, have to install at least one hydrogen pump and the infrastructure will start to build itself out.

    Remember, when Musk started Tesla, there weren't too many places where one could charge an electric car, but thanks to a combination of public and private efforts, there are now lots of places where one can charge their electric car, regardless of the make or model.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    17,575
    Ratings:
    +16,500
    Oh, and Rainier's supposed to assplode soon and wipe out Tacoma with its lahars, and St Helens is still being St Helens and is supposed to wipe out Yakima... frankly, that last one would do everyone a service :bergman:
  20. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,294
    Location:
    here there be dragons
    Ratings:
    +11,659
    That's the worst you can think of? Are you even trying?

    Stop the fuckin' presses! What an enormous scandal we've got here! My god, we could have up to... 4, count 'em, 4 people earning a million dollars off cooked green financials*, not a single one of whom is a climate scientist.

    *maybe; it wasn't until the polysilicon price crash, which was after the government-guaranteed loan, that their business model became untenable; if they hadn't tried to expand, these execs would have likely continued getting these quarterly bonuses until the company went bankrupt anyway. The rest of that money went to the terribly un-American activities of building a factory and paying workers.

    I don't understand your objection here. LO's Generation Global funds are performing 74-110% better since launch over the MSCI World Index. Al Gore made good investments in green(ish) companies (which is unsurprising because climate change is real, so green companies should be in demand) and made a boatload of money for his investors... and that's a bad thing?

    Names and figures or STFU.
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    35,214
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +26,406
    :unsure:

    Are you thinking of antimatter?
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,839
    Location:
    Idaho
    Ratings:
    +13,524
    Saw a funny video a while back made by a British guy married to an American gal, making fun of their language differences. They got a LOT of comedy mileage out of the whole 'potato chip vs crisp' and 'chip versus french fry' bit.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  23. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    9,594
    Ratings:
    +5,755
    I've had breakfast there a couple times, but it consisted of French style eggs. What's up with that?

    For real Marietta NJ pies visit Paul's on the square.
  24. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    23,755
    Ratings:
    +27,005
    Your surrender is accepted. :async:
  25. GhostEcho

    GhostEcho Christian Conservative (Republican)

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,246
    Ratings:
    +2,263
    Pretty blonde chick? I love their videos, if that's who you mean.
  26. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Rey of sunshine

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    13,729
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +17,061
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  27. spot261

    spot261 Hysterical Little Girl

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    7,258
    Ratings:
    +8,908
    So, what was the gravy train again?
    • popcorn popcorn x 4
  28. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf Hamachi is a fish best served cold

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    25,135
    Ratings:
    +26,156
    He was talking about ships, not cars, which as he pointed out it is far easier to convert a relatively few number of ships vs. a billion cars.

    But the infrastructure for hydrogen pumps for cars pretty much exists as gas stations, we just have to spend a little time adding hydrogen pumps.

    I recently discovered a few gas stations in my area that have added hydrogen pumps over the last year. So there's obviously a growing market for it.
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  29. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    26,138
    Location:
    N.C.
    Ratings:
    +24,043
    Our hard earned tax dollars going to "...academics, bureaucrats, speculators, globalists, and politicians seeking excuses for more power and more taxes...".

    Those people are making BANK!

    I passed a climatologist just yesterday. Know how I know he was a climatologist? He was driving a lamborghini...a green lamborghini. :yes:
    • Funny Funny x 8
  30. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf Hamachi is a fish best served cold

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    25,135
    Ratings:
    +26,156
    [​IMG]
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1