Trump administration wants to monitor disabled people's Facebooks to make sure they're not too happy

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by tafkats, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    18,150
    Location:
    Sunnydale
    Ratings:
    +28,038
    Disgusting.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/us/politics/social-security-disability-trump-facebook.html

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...osal-to-monitor-social-media-of-disabled.html

    Many people have conditions where they might have one functional day out of every five or 10. This obviously makes it impossible to hold down a job. Are we really so obsessed with the possibility that someone, somewhere might be getting away with something that we're going to harass them because they took that one good day to rake leaves or play with their kids?
    • Angry x 4
    • Sad x 3
    • Agree x 1
    • Happy x 1
    • Facepalm x 1
  2. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    52,279
    Ratings:
    +35,309
    Why am I not surprised that this makes @Dayton3 happy? More government nannyism, the very antithesis of Christianity, the opposite of everything the "conservative Christian" claims he espouses. :jayzus:
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  3. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Sheithforge Formerly Important

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    37,214
    Location:
    San Diego
    Ratings:
    +42,196
    I don't have enough gifs to express the level of fucked up this is.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    50,627
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +21,287
    No. But if the government is giving people money then it should come with strings. And those strings mean oversight.
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  5. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Sheithforge Formerly Important

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    37,214
    Location:
    San Diego
    Ratings:
    +42,196
    Disability is already the most stringent of welfare payments.

    https://www.disabilitybenefitscenter.org/faq/work-limit

    So people are stuck with the decision to either not work at all or try to work through their illness so they can make ends meet and praying their employer is forgiving of time off needed.

    Our system is truly fucked up.
    • Agree Agree x 10
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
  6. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,254
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,597
    What kind of horribly oppressive government would do a thing like monitoring people's social media to see if they slip up somehow?
  7. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    4,813
    Ratings:
    +5,277
    I'll bite, it happens here already, but only as part of investigations where there has already been cause for suspicion. It's aimed at criminal fraud rather than simply catching people on a good day, but I'm not sure it isn't misused.

    I agree, it is pretty unsettling and very much open for abuse. There have been people (I understand) legitimately caught out who were utterly falsifying disabilities but it's worth bearing in mind the scale of our benefits system is proportionately larger and the financial incentives involved in fraud are much greater, so the playing field is very different.
  8. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,254
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,597
    Huh, guess I was too subtle, for once... :ramen:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    4,813
    Ratings:
    +5,277
    No, I'd say you got it right and there are broader questions about social media and the information governments, employers, corporations and criminals can glean them,
    I just opted to stay in the specific.
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  10. matthunter

    matthunter Good enough

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    15,317
    Location:
    Exploring in the Lost Light
    Ratings:
    +17,019
    I was watching an old ep of Spitting Image the other day back from the Thatcher era, where the right-wing tabloids had reporters out trying to catch out benefits cheats (the joke at the end being that in Thatcher's UK the unemployment rate was so high that anyone ACTUALLY working was more newsworthy than benefit fraud). I'm sure they'd still be out doing it these days if they didn't have furriners to rail against instead.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,496
    Location:
    South Florida watching the meandering dead
    Ratings:
    +11,216
    I think some better monitoring of the disability system to remove people who are conning it is in order. To say disabled people should not be happy is pure Trump cruelty. However, disability is abused as an alternative to welfare.

    I have seen disability as a way we can help people who would not be able to work, but I am not so sure about a lot of psychological reasoning for a person to be considered disabled. I have known people who were on it merely because they have some anger issues because they have been raised to have tantrums because something happens they do not like. We have a place called jail for the people like that.

    If we really want to do something we need to crack down on the medical industry who does make profits off od declaring people disabled. The system is much more profitable to con artists than welfare which has been overhauled since the days of its great abuses.
  12. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    42,412
    Ratings:
    +29,857
    I'm not seeing a problem here.

    Than again I work in a mental health unit and over ten years have seen inmates teach each other what to say and how to say it to scam the government, state and federal, into giving them money for their various disabilities.

    Do I think if there is one picture of someone doing something that they should lose their disability? No. Of course not.

    However if a pattern develops where you're always not looking like your disability is there than yes the government should check it out to make sure you're not committing fraud.

    If you want money from the government you can't complain about the rules that come with it. Yes some of those rules can be fucked up and probably need tweaking but until that happens you're on the hook for following them.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
  13. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,496
    Location:
    South Florida watching the meandering dead
    Ratings:
    +11,216
    I have helped people get benefits from disability. It is needed, and is part of social security which also covers the elderly who can no longer work. However, there are a number of known doctors and methods used to gain approval for benefits and to increase benefits for those who want them.

    There is also a link to opioid abuse since pain often leads to pain killers.even a person with legit pain issues might end up being used like cattle to boost numbers by getting them addicted. The US needs to do a lot better as this money is better used on people who need it. Our psychology industry is a huge problem in creating disabled out of able bodied people. I have had a couple of shrinks tell me I should be disabled because of being trans which they say keeps me from getting employment. That is other people's malfunction as I am capable of doing work. Just one of the many reasons I am not a fan of American psychological professionals.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    42,412
    Ratings:
    +29,857
    And yes I agree with Tererun that the medical industry should be cracked down on.

    Doctors are just as much as part of the fraud as their patients.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  15. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,496
    Location:
    South Florida watching the meandering dead
    Ratings:
    +11,216
    The problem is there is a script to get disability. Even as a clearly disabled person if you don't say the right thing you will get less benefits. Part of the problem is low funding and a high need for individual assessment which leads to a simplified process of evaluation.

    One of the people I helped did not want to seem like a leach but in the end if he tried to say his pain was less they would have lowered his benefits. His body was ravaged by liver failure which he came back from. He could not say he had gotten better because he would be seen as recovering even though he would never walk right or would barely be able to lift much or even walk around a grocery store again.

    The system promotes lying even for people honest who don't want to be charity cases, but who have to. I do agree that the dishonest are the people who figure out and comminicate how to game the system.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    4,813
    Ratings:
    +5,277
    One of the many reasons I prefer a "not for profit" approach to healthcare, clinical decisions should be made on the basis of the patient as presented, not the financial motivations of the clinician or their employer.

    Testing is very variable here and I've never quite figured out the rhyme nor reason behind who is sat on the other side of the table. They send people out to assess our patients but it's appears to be almost random who those people actually are. Sometimes it's an occupational therapist or specialist nurse, other times it's a doctor or even a consultant. Frequently it seems to be an unqualified monkey with a tick box. That's pretty damned frustrating when I'm talking to someone as a representative of a patient who lacks capacity or chose to request I do so and I'm having to calibrate exactly what level of expertise they do or don't have.

    Oddly it often seems to be the least qualified people who are the hardest to convince because they are so tied into the idea that everything is completely binary and have no insight into the reality of the persons' experience.

    "Can this person do their own shopping?"

    "No, because....."

    "Hold on, they have functioning legs don't they?"

    "Yes but he lacks the capacity to function in that environment"

    "So he can't count? It says here he's got a degree?"

    "Yes he can count, but he's unlikely to be able to communicate effectively with members of the public given his symptoms...."

    "Wait, you're saying he has a speech impediment?"

    "No, I'm..."

    "You're saying he has an injury affecting his speech centres? There's nothing about that here in my notes"

    "No, I'm saying interaction with strangers is difficult because when he's unmedicated....."

    "When he's unwell, you're saying he deliberately doesn't take his medication?"

    "No, I'm saying when he's in an acute phase he doesn't trust the medication or the people...."

    "But the medication works, right, so as long as he takes it there's no problem"

    "No you fucking numpty, he's a fucking paranoid schizophrenic suffering an acute phase and has to be forcibly medicated because he believes the liquid form is Hitlers' semen frozen by the CIA. That's the reason you're talking to me and not him because he's convinced you're here to remove his nipples, anally probe him and share the secret code hidden in his DNA telling the truth about Jesus being an alien working for the Illuminati.

    If you can't wrap your head around that try fucking taking him to a shop and seeing what happens when some nice old dear tries asking him the time and he replies "Judgement Day", a small child talks to him about The Magic School Bus, or the shopkeeper tells him they've run out of the usual paracetamol but this other brand is just as good and not at all an attempt to drug him. Now either wake the fuck up and listen of get the fuck out and send me someone who has a fucking clue what they're doing without having to read a fucking script on minimum wage because it was cheaper to grab someone off the dole queue than actually pay a professional"
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 6
  17. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    29,852
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Ratings:
    +27,799
    Remember when I've said that government is too big and too intrusive, and it's bad for liberty, and our progressive friends just snort and dismiss the problem? And advocate for even larger, more intrusive government?

    Yeah, about that . . .
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • teh baba teh baba x 1
  18. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    52,279
    Ratings:
    +35,309
    Unless they're in the White House.
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
  19. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    29,852
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Ratings:
    +27,799
    Give it a bit longer.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,496
    Location:
    South Florida watching the meandering dead
    Ratings:
    +11,216
    well, you do not need the words in, the, and house in that sentence.
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Sad Sad x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  21. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    24,207
    Location:
    An Underground Bunker in an Undisclosed Location
    Ratings:
    +17,918
    Just what we need, more government spying.:jayzus:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    19,978
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,467
    Yeah sorry, while these crackdowns often go too far, they system that has too many checks is still better than no system at all which tells people to go die in the gutter.
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 2
  23. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    52,279
    Ratings:
    +35,309
    It's amazing. Even those Americans who give lip-service to "the Founding Fathers did not declare this a Christian country" still abide by Calvinist "you're going to hell" concepts.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    69,280
    Location:
    Georgia, USA
    Ratings:
    +25,893
  25. Mrs. Albert

    Mrs. Albert demented estrogen monster

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    23,272
    Ratings:
    +10,507
    Ugh, the disability people are absolute fucking stalkers. They call my sister all the time to ask how she’s feeling and if she thinks she can work again soon. Uhhhhh, no, cause I’m in the hospital as we speak, jackass. They remind her that soon her definition of disability will change to “able to do ANY job”. She’s so polite to them...I seriously don’t know how she is able to keep her composure. I would just continuously scream “BONE CANCER!!!!” over and over until they stopped calling.
    • Sad Sad x 4
    • Angry Angry x 3
    • Love Love x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    19,978
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,467
    There were a few stories in the news here last week, including one mother who was getting calls every six months to check if her son still had Downs Syndrome, and a person born without eyes who the system was insisting had to go to an optometrist to check if they were still blind.
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 5
    • Angry Angry x 2
  27. spot261

    spot261 Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    4,813
    Ratings:
    +5,277
    What the fuck?
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Sad Sad x 1
  28. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    52,279
    Ratings:
    +35,309
    This is one of the principal complaints against health insurance companies...that they allow customer service reps with no medical education to pass judgment on things they know nothing about. :pissed:
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  29. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    19,978
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,467
    The last government brought in an expanded support service for those with disabilities, the current conservative government has made it one of their missions to kill it through a thousand small cuts.
    • Sad Sad x 3
    • Angry Angry x 2
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  30. Captain Conspiracy

    Captain Conspiracy Making Frogs Gay Again

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    24,207
    Location:
    An Underground Bunker in an Undisclosed Location
    Ratings:
    +17,918
    Some fat cat in Washington making these decisions is so much better.:dayton:
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1