Trump Kicking and Screaming Transition Thread

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Ancalagon, Nov 10, 2020.

  1. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    44,204
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +36,678
    • Angry Angry x 6
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 3
    • Sad Sad x 1
  2. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    44,204
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +36,678
    Admins, should we have a separate thread for transition issues?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    44,204
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +36,678
    • Angry Angry x 2
  4. We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse

    We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse Probably a Dual

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    16,315
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +23,362
    So what's the alternative?

    Short of armed rebellion, how do you stop a lame duck President who's unwilling to accept reality?

    EDIT: I've always seen this as a major flaw of the American electoral system. A sitting president who has been defeated at the polls should not have another 3 months in office. Looks like we're seeing that flaw being played out right now.
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  5. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    87,540
    Ratings:
    +58,523
    I could see in old-timey days when you needed a horse and wagon to get to Washington.
    Once commercial flight became a thing, that 3 months needed to go.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    32,849
    Location:
    Someplace high and cold
    Ratings:
    +32,892
    No, it's a pretty damn complicated job, being President. There needs to be a turnover period so the incoming Electee can get properly briefed.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  7. We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse

    We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse Probably a Dual

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    16,315
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +23,362
    Okay. Then how do you propose to deal with the absolute shit storm that's happening now?
    • popcorn popcorn x 3
  8. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    27,063
    Ratings:
    +31,239
    Congrats to Trump on the transition, I hope xhe finds the identity xhe is looking for.
    • Funny Funny x 4
  9. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,987
    Location:
    The Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue
    Ratings:
    +27,685
    I suggest that Biden file a lawsuit to force Trump to begin the transition process. :diacanu:
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    31,925
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +21,917
    Inauguration day used to be in March so it's already been changed. I don't how much closer to the election you could make it, it takes some time to transition.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    31,925
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +21,917
    Trump has until mid December to fight all he wants and he’s within his rights to do so. Once the electors make their final vote, he’ll have no choice but to begin transition. Remember, Gore held things up for 45 days so none of this is unprecedented.
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse

    We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse Probably a Dual

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    16,315
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +23,362
    You 'Muricans sure are making a lot of excuses for the greatest democracy in the world!!!!1!

    How is it that in a parliamentary democracy, the government basically turns over right after the election?

    Last I checked, the United Kingdom has been doing just fine. Canada or Australia haven't fallen apart.

    So what the fuck, America? Are you a bunch of nincompoops?

    Wait, don't answer that... :unsure:
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  13. We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse

    We Are Borg vs. USS Crazy Horse Probably a Dual

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    16,315
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +23,362
    Trump proves that assertion to be 100% incorrect.
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
  14. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    27,063
    Ratings:
    +31,239
    I've said this before, but we're a beta democracy, held together by crappy patches (with the last substantive patch occurring nearly 50 years ago), and we refuse to upgrade to the modern Democracy 2.0 because of our stubbornness.
    • Agree Agree x 10
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  15. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    44,204
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +36,678
    Copied from another thread.

    Today’s episode of the Lawfare podcast deals with this.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-podcast-firings-transitions-and-staffing-oh-my

    A couple of points.

    The money isn’t a big deal. The Biden campaign has the cash on hand to self finance the transition. Bush had to self finance until Gore conceded and it was ruled that when this happens the campaign will be reimbursed.

    If it drags on it could impact the makeup of Biden’s early political appointees. If there isn’t enough on boarding time then Biden will feel pressured to appoint folks who have prior experience in these agencies and don’t need as long to be brought up to speed. With a few notable executions these folks tend to be old white guys.

    It does limit the number of people who receive classified briefings. Transition staff have been and will continue to receive classified briefings but potential cabinet appointees and other high ranking officials won’t. If it drags on this could be an issue.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  16. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    19,176
    Ratings:
    +12,701
    Trump continues to install loyalists. Tata, an absolute loon, in as the Chief Policy advisor for the Pentagon. Nunez flunkies and Trump loyalists Ellis and Patel in as new secDef Miller's Chief of Staff, and as the NSA General Counsel, respectively.

    I think the plan is to put forward alternate electors, have all hell break out in the Joint Session for the certification, have SCOTUS declare no path forward, and kick it over to the House for a state by state vote - which Trump wins. In theory, just as the Constitution demands.

    Will it work? Probably not. But that's not nearly a good enough answer.
    • Angry Angry x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    8,875
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Ratings:
    +12,425
    If I understand correctly, in a parliamentary system, the Opposition party or parties have their own "shadow" cabinet...essentially a shadow government that's ready to move in and take over as soon as the votes are counted. That's a definite advantage for parliamentary systems that's baked in because cabinet ministers are also members of parliament. Presidents can recruit from a broader base, but there's nothing to gain politically by announcing their cabinet choices in advance and there's that "advise and consent" provision for the senate. It could be done faster, but I don't see any way to do it as quickly as can be done in a parliamentary system. :clyde:
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  18. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    87,540
    Ratings:
    +58,523
    This election is nothing like 2000, and you expose your ignorance by even trying to compare them.
    Be ashamed.
    The shame should be making a blackhole of cold in your chest that sends tingles down to your fingertips, and it should follow you into your dreams, and back into wakefulness for the next 20 years.
    The fact that you are not currently experiencing this further exposes your stupidity.
    And further magnifies the shame you should be feeling.
    :bailey:
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    31,925
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +21,917
    I didn't say it was anything like 2000, I cited Gore v Bush as past precedent. Every candidate for President has a right to contest the votes up until the electors vote on the presidency no matter how painfully obvious it is that they lost.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  20. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Listen here, Jack

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    24,943
    Ratings:
    +30,441
    1. Presidential candidates can been receiving early briefings for decades. Kanye probably didn't, but any candidate with a credible chance should be able to hit the ground running.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/why-do-presidential-nominees-receive-classified-briefings/#app

    2. Parliamentary systems like Canada and the UK and somehow manage without letting losing candidates hold on to power for months. I'm sure you think things have to be different in America because America is amazing and special. :dayton:
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Sad Sad x 1
  21. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Listen here, Jack

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    24,943
    Ratings:
    +30,441
    I have the right* to fuck your mother and father in the butt while you watch and cry like a little girl. :async:


    *Ever notice how you only seem to care about what "rights" someone "technically" has when they're doing something shitty and indefensible? You'll always remind us how Nazis have the constitutional right to wave their swastikas and guns around so long as they're technically peaceful, but you never seem to mention those rights when we're talking about Black Lives Matter marches. Funny how that works. :brood:
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    31,925
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +21,917
    Nah, I've never noticed that because it's not true.
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 3
  23. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Listen here, Jack

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    24,943
    Ratings:
    +30,441
    Oh, so you can show us posts where you remind everyone that BLM protesters have a constitutional right to protest peacefully? Where you criticize anyone that suggests using violence against them? :chris:
    • popcorn popcorn x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Damar

    Damar Liberal Elitist

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    FL
    Ratings:
    +1,656
    Pompeo has been an idiot from the get go.

    Biden has been elected and will be President. The question is how difficult does Trump want to make it. I say call his bluff on everything. At the end of the day Trump’s a pretty feeble person.
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  25. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    23,342
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Ratings:
    +26,876
    Plenty of countries out there with presidential systems that manage it a lot more quickly.

    It's baffling that the US doesn't have anything like a caretaker mode for government. Here, once the election period starts the government goes into a caretaker mode where they have a number of limits on things they can do. Basically still have power to keep the country ticking over and respond to any crisis that comes about, but other than that have to keep things on their existing path.
    • popcorn popcorn x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
  26. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    44,204
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +36,678
    • Angry Angry x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    31,925
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +21,917
    I can show you posts where I've spoke out against police brutality and authoritarianism in the US. I can also show you posts where I've spoken out in defense of the first amendment.
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
  28. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    23,342
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Ratings:
    +26,876
    Golly gosh, I didn't realise that being the US president involved complicated things. Why here in the rest of the world our leaders just spit their tabaccy into the pot and start pushing random papers until something happens.
    • Funny Funny x 9
    • Agree Agree x 2
  29. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon outta my way Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    44,204
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +36,678
    Oh, so you can show us posts where you remind everyone that BLM protesters have a constitutional right to protest peacefully? Where you criticize anyone that suggests using violence against them? :chris:
    • popcorn popcorn x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  30. The Ghost of Crazy Horse

    The Ghost of Crazy Horse Soul Rebel

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    31,925
    Location:
    The South
    Ratings:
    +21,917
    Why are you only focusing on BLM, everyone has a right to peacefully protest.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1