Trump shits all over the Refugee Convention

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by El Chup, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46147137

    It's a fact that a great many asylum seekers enter the country in which they intend to claim refugee status illegally or arrive at the port to claim. It's the nature of desperation or economic migrancy.

    Now, having looking at the US law just a few days ago on the US internal distinction between refugee and "asylee", the only difference was that the latter was the term used for someone claiming refugee status who was already in US soil as opposed to applying outside. This is because under the Refugee Convention the US has undertaken an obligation under international law to hear these claims wherever they are made.

    This proposal would render a significant proportion of entrants to the US without a claim. You cannot say "no problem, they can leave and claim from outside" because often they will be in danger in their country of origin or they will not have permission to travel to and reside in a third country while a claim from outside is processed (plus they would not have fair access to the courts for the appeal process). To expect them to do so is an express breach of Article 31 of the Convention (a contracting nation shall not impose penalties on an illegal entrant refugee) and would give rise to a breach of Article 33 (a contracting nation shall not expelled a refugee to a territory where he may be at risk). It is also a potential breach of Article 16 (access to the courts).

    Now, the only way I see Trump getting away with this is if the US withdraws from the Refugee Convention completely. Something I don't think is impossible given that he pulled out of the UN's Migrant and Refugee Pact last December, has imposed what is effectively Muslim (which already severely inhibits nations on the ban list from seeking refugee status in the US0 ban and pulled out of Paris and JCPOA.

    Now, to put this in context, 144 countries are signed up to the Convention, including every first world nation. It was set up in the shadow of the Holocaust to prevent history from repeating itself. After nearly 7o years does the US really want to abandon basic values even more? No doubt @Paladin and his Trumpite friends are overjoyed they're getting their money's worth, considering they like to dehumanise and demonise people seeking refugee status. But is this not another warning sign as to how far American is slipping away from it's own basic historical values (particularly given it is a nation of immigrants)?
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  2. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    Seriously, nobody cares? :jayzus:
  3. K.

    K. Sober

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    Apart from everything else, the ludicrous attempt to connect asylum to the legality of immigration showcases just how far removed from reality the propaganda about immigration in to the US has become. How the hell does that even make sense? The two have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
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  4. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    It's not that nobody cares, I think many of us care, it's just that this is Donald Trump. He could fuck a watermelon and smash it in some disabled teenager's face and we wouldn't be shocked. He's a right fuckstick, and I expect this from him. All that can be done is to fight it at every opportunity.
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  5. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  6. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    It would be interesting to know what court. I would be very concerned if the Supreme Court ignore law and shat all over this action. But the way things are in America now....
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  7. Grandtheftcow

    Grandtheftcow Fresh Meat

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    Honestly no. The US has the right to control it's border and limit the people who attempt to cross it. Even if it needs to withdraw from previous international agreements to match the change in policy.
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  8. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    Seriously, why is this so hard for people to understand? And no, I dont give a fuck. I mean, REALLY REALLY don't give a fuck. Our country is facing problems of overpopulation as it is with heavy drains on social services. Take care of our people first.
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  9. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf Hamachi is a fish best served cold

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    Nevermind that those treaties are on equal footing as the Constitution. :dayton: Not to mention common human fucking decency.
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  10. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf Hamachi is a fish best served cold

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    lukecares.jpg
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  11. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Current mood:

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    :lol:

    No it ain't.
    1. No.

    2. Your buddies are doing their best to gut and defund those services anyway. :async:
    Your buddies are doing their best to shirk those obligations too. :shrug:
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  12. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    Refugee Convention? Fuck me yet ANOTHER great band name! :yes:
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  13. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    Does that right mean ignoring treaties the US help to set up to protect people from persecution and genocide?
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  14. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf Hamachi is a fish best served cold

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    No it's really not. If anything, we're at risk of going the way of Japan and several Western European countries with less than 2.0 replacement birth rate (i.e. a shrinking, aging population). If we're not already below that already, we're probably just breaking even with replacement. That will prove to be an economic burden for generations to come, with the younger generations being smaller and having to support larger retired generations.

    The only way around it, besides having more babies, is welcoming more immigrants. Also, these people would not automatically receive social services upon entry. Do you understand how our immigration system works at all?

    TL;DR if you think social security and taxes are fucked now, just wait until all the Boomers retire while also fighting tooth and nail to keep immigrants out and thus ensuring an ever-shrinking-population.
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  15. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    They're ensuring their own demise is what they're doing, by holding their breath in a sinking ship.
  16. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    1939 called, the nationalists of that era want their talking points back.
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  17. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    It was past midnight in California when you wrote that. We were all asleep. :shrug:

    At any rate, same shit, different day for this administration. Plus, as others have said, what more can be said that hasn't been hashed and rehashedover the last two years? Those who still for Trump will keep doing so regardless of any facts brought forth or as TR bluntly stated, they just don't care.

    Speaking of that crap:
    Oh, bull. Everytime someone proposes anything that takes care of "our own," it's met with hysterical screaming about Communism is Bad and the sky is falling and how liberals love to spend everyone's money.

    Go come up with another reason to be a bigot. :jayzus:
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  18. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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  19. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    You will appreciate that this particular issue is not "just another thing" for me. It is a fundamental assault on the law and on basic human dignity.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
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  20. Grandtheftcow

    Grandtheftcow Fresh Meat

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    Even if they had a hand in crafting those treaties it's still the sovereign right of the United States to withdraw from them if they so choose. The governments level of compassion it wishes to provide upon the worlds disadvantaged is of it's own choosing.
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  21. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    So fucking what if it's a sovereign right (albeit that's debatable under international law)? What's that got to do with the reason the damn convention exists in the first place and why the US is instrumental in its creation?

    Do you want to be a leader in freedoms, liberties and human rights or more like one of the many antidemocratic backwards regimes in the world?
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  22. K.

    K. Sober

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    Bullshit. Asylum is a fundamental, basic human right. It does not come from international contracts, they only recognize it. All legitimate political power flows from those most fundamental rights. Once you have abandoned them, any talk of "the right to control one's borders", or any other rights, is hogwash. You can't deny asylum and still speak of any other right as if it means anything.
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  23. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Yeah, crossing the Texas Panhandle a few weeks back, I spotted that it was pretty much wall to wall with people.

    Invisible ones. Ones disguised as cows, and some really clever fuckers who took the old three-kids-in-a-trenchcoat to the next level and had camouflaged themselves as fields of windmills.

    Lucky I had my They Live glasses on really, otherwise I'd have just assumed it was empty fields, wind farms and mobile steak.
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  24. Grandtheftcow

    Grandtheftcow Fresh Meat

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    The convention was created with the help of a different government with different priorities under differing circumstances. The current American administration apparently feels the agreement is no longer beneficial and may terminate it at it's choosing. It is well within it's right to do so.

    I have little interest in pointless boasting about being the leader in whatever. I only care about what is practical and beneficial to my country. We don't need to take in every ragged soul that visits our doorstep.

    Anyone can claim asylum, yet all of them could potentially be rejected for no stated reason. I don't know why you're attempting to conflate the rights of citizens to those of non-citizens.
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  25. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Those who ignore history...
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  26. Grandtheftcow

    Grandtheftcow Fresh Meat

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    The myth of repeating history is nothing more than superstitious nonsense. We are influenced by the past but the circumstances of the present decide our future.
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  27. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    So when it's freedom, liberty and human dignity a country like America can turn it's back on refugees, treaties/international law it helped create, the principles on which the founding fathers set up the country and the very fact it has always been a country built on immigration....and the pure decency of helping save a person who might otherwise be murdered.

    Bit if it's guns, a 250 year old law must stay the same and be unamendable because society doesn't change in 250 years and guns are an unquestionable human right. :dayton:

    Farcical.
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  28. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    So El Chimp how do you get anything accomplished (assuming you do) when all day you are on your calloused knees thanking god for living on your side of the pond, and not having deal with us primitive misguided savages on a daily basis?
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  29. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    "Chimp"?

    Given that this is a thread about immigration law and I am vastly more educated and experienced on this subject than you, where is the reciprocated respect and reverence you demanded when you offered up an opinion on a military matter and made out nobody was worthy of an opinion because you apparently knew more?
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  30. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    You think I don't realize that? I'm not Dinner. :shrug:

    It's like Amaris said earlier: if we blew a gasket at every unethical thing Trump does or encourages, we'd all be dead from aneurysms by now.
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