Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by El Chup, May 26, 2018.
Okay. So "shut up and pray, but for now just shut up".
So you're basically saying they were as fine a group of kids as one could ask for?
They were Catholic raised, so they've been indoctrinated that marriage is between man and woman, and yet when they heard anti-gay slurs and hate speech their reaction was to hiss and take it personally.
Sounds like the best possible picture one could paint of "Christian", the kind of mentality leftforge often claims it wishes it could see more of, sometimes denying that such Christians even exist.
And they were *teens*, a group we've (often reasonably) come to expect the worst from.
You seem to be going out of your way to make it seem like I'm hostile to the students somehow. Take a breath. I haven't called them evil. I haven't even called them racist, even though a few of them said or did racist things. Certainly the specter of racism was hanging over the entire proceeding.
They don't have to "shut up." I just think it would have been better for them not to engage with the hate group at all. Of course, that wouldn't have gotten them invited to the White House.
Remember when people understood context?
I don't agree that reacting negatively to being called an anti-gay slur necessarily means one is in favor of gay rights. That's certainly not the way it was on any playground when I was growing up.
BHI: "Your President is a f*gg*t!"
Covington Kids: "So what?"
Yeah, those rotten brats.
You and Tuttle are painfully stretching the idea that these kids might have been in favor of gay rights, or that someone being gay doesn't bother them. I'd almost call it Trumpian in its ability to obfuscate the underlying point.
I forgot....what planet are you from again?
ummm......you might not be the best person to say you don't play "pretend". Not that there's anything wrong with that!
Speaking of what a pro-gay rights school CovCath is....
But sure, the kids were standing up for gay rights. Keep telling yourselves that.
You and Quest else are painfully stretching the idea that these kids MIGHT have done "something" (anything, even) wrong just because you can't bear the thought that you jumped to conclusions.
Go back and check bud, I didn't say anything about their state of mind about gays.
I simply said they behaved in a way you could be proud of as an adult, maybe even should be. In contrast to the usual shit we see from teens in the news, like those hate group teens.
[mind reading:] even if a person *would* vote to call gay union a 'civil union' not "marriage", wouldn't you prefer that ALL kids to speak out against bigoted anti-gay slurs whatever else is in their mind? Wouldn't you?!
You're saying they didn't shout back at the angry, extreme cultists, nor that they were encouraged to do so by the chaperones who were fuck all to be seen during the confrontation that resulted? If you're not saying that, then congratulations, they did something. What you're doing is turning "something" into "the worst thing deserving of bad things," and neither myself or @Quest are saying that.
Yeah, its getting quite embarrassing at this point. I've never seen a teenager get so much flak for standing still and being quiet. Oh, and for smirking. That nasty smirk with such evil intentions. Let's spend days and days arguing over the meaning of the smirk.
The left have truely lost their minds.
I said they behaved foolishly and disrespectfully, and I stand by that. It's not the end of the world. I did plenty of foolish and disrespectful things as a teenager. Who knew all I had to do was put on a MAGA cap and people would love me for it?
Exactly. The kids screwed up, because they're teens and their brains haven't completely figured out that some actions have negative consequences. I'd rather they learned from it, especially Nick. The kid has a golden opportunity to learn from this and be better for it.
Of course, what we're seeing now is put on a red MAGA hat and suddenly personal responsibility doesn't apply to you. It explains how Trump won, though.
Oh yeah the left was loving him alright! They loved him enough to call for his head on a picket! That is until all the facts came in and then they tap-danced for our entertainment, which is actually pretty fucking funny to be honest.
"I just think it would have been better for them not to engage with the hate group at all. Of course, that wouldn't have gotten them invited to the White House." - quest
Damn Sherlock you cracked the case! That's exactly what the kid had planned all along! Nothing gets past you does it?
And Amaris - if it weren't for the MAGA hat NOBODY would have even saw this story. Tell me I'm wrong. That hat drew left outrage like shit draws flies.
And Nick did learn one lesson from this.....the left are FUBAR!
Oh and BTW this is how Trump won (picture) Stay delusional Amaris!
Why would "the left" love someone for wearing a MAGA hat? Did you just think that sounded awesome and blurted it into the thread? Get it together, old man. You're slipping.
That said, I do feel bad for the kid at this point. He's probably scared shitless from the death threats that shouldn't have happened, and he clearly wants all of this to go away. I don't blame him for that. He did get involved in something stupid (seriously, if you're a group of teenagers and you're being threatened by a group of religious extremists you DO NOT egg them on), but death threats are beyond the pale which, by the way (@oldfella1962), the liberals and left have been denouncing because there's no excuse for that. There is a middle ground between the kids being ultimate evil and unspoiled angels, and most of us have set foot there posting as such, save for the assholes who keep trying to shove our opinions from one extreme to the other.
Oldfella, I could crack my head against the sidewalk from a thousand foot drop, and I would still receive less brain damage than the shit you post every day. Goddamn, man.
No, this is how Trump won:
Well, you said that what they did (respond to racist taunts by a group of protesters with their school cheer) was disrespectful and wrong. I would have no problem with someone saying what they did was unwise, silly, or even stupid, but I don't see how it's disrespectful, and I especially don't see how it's wrong...at least in any moral sense.
No, not in any legal or even necessarily a moral sense. It was more like a social faux pas. You just don't act like they did in that particular place at that particular time. Yeah yeah yeah, the black racists set them off. Not an excuse. As for disrespectful, I would say they disrespected themselves, their families, their school, their community, their country, and the legacies of Abraham Lincoln, whose memorial they were visiting, and Martin Luther King, whose holiday weekend it was. Oh, and the organizers and other participants in the Right to Life march. Too much?
It was a public space in Washington D.C. If there is only one place in in the entirety of the U.S. that's appropriate for an impromptu counter-protest, how is that not it?
A protest is informed. A protest has a specific political message. These kids heard some offensive speech and decided it was up to them to drown it out. There was at least 40-50 of them (does anybody know the actual number?) and only 4-5 offenders. You may scoff at the racial dynamic of the situation, but many others present would have seen it as "here comes the White Man to take over and make everybody listen to him again." I want to make this next part especially clear: this dynamic exists entirely apart from any racist thoughts or intentions on the part of the kids. They could have been thinking about puppy dogs and rainbows the whole time and it wouldn't have mattered. That's why everything went down the way it did. They didn't appreciate the gravity of the situation and they stepped in it big time. Fortunately it all ended peacefully,
no small thanks to Nathan Phillips. The initial outrage against the kids was misinformed as well, but there's no reason to make them the heroes.
I'm not trying to make them out as heroes. I'm saying that particular engagement wasn't wrong or disrespectful...especially given the venue. Additionally I wouldn't call the outrage initial...it's ongoing and so are the ramifications with the death threats, international notoriety and last I heard there was talk of expulsions from the school. What kind of Civics lessons do you think those kids learned from their school trip to DC?
Adults are assholes who will use them to their own ends regardless of the truth of the matter.
It’s a damned good lesson to learn so early.
That remains to be seen. I've found the best way to learn is in fact to "shut up," listen and observe. That's not what they chose to do in the moment. Due to the fractured political situation and our divided country, I'm afraid what they learn won't help them.
Yeah...I figured "shut up" as well.
Your own words. What would you have them learn by closing ranks and imposing their point of view on every situation they encounter?
Separate names with a comma.