US forces bomb another hospital

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by RickDeckard, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    Hmmm......playing devil's advocate here: if I were the Taliban I would want the exact location of the hospital to be in effect public information. Then I would move into that hospital and set up shop, knowing my enemies (the US and pals) wouldn't attack it. Until of course they realized I was using the hospital for military operations, then get the hell out of Dodge before the media/doctors without borders/etc. arrive just in time to see dead innocents. Sound about right kids?
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  2. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Nope.
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  3. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

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    Yes. That's pretty standard.
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  4. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    Nah, I'm sure the Taliban kept their distance from the hospital out of respect for humanitarian concerns, whereupon the U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs said "Hey, you know what would be fun? Lobbing rockets at some injured people. How many kids do you think we can take out?"
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  5. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    If there were Taliban in the hospital, something which is denied by the medical staff who were attacked, then the US forces still had obligations, quoted above, which they were bound to follow and which they did not.

    The moral evasion here is pathetic.
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  6. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    Something's pathetic all right. :jayzus:
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  7. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Give him a break. Rick has openly admitted he will not complain about the bad guys and their ilk because he as a westerner has no influence over them.

    Just like the anti nuclear weapons clowns in the 80s who said they only protested American and NATO nuclear weapons because the "Russians won't listen to us anyway".
  8. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Not what I said. The apparent requirement for people to create strawmen while attempting to debate this issue is revealing.

    Moreover, "the bad guys" if they exist at all are those who murder hospital patients in their beds and then seek to evade accountability.
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  9. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Military action is not murder Rick unless the attacking force had full knowledge that they were attacking non legitimate civilian targets.
  10. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Sounds a lot like it to me:

    From Rick, up thread.

    This is asked and answered on every occasion. We all agree that the Taliban are scumbags, so there's little debate to be had in it. And none of us elect the political bodies that control the Taliban.
  11. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    They did have full knowledge. They were told repeatedly of the hospital.

    Further, your protestations are not credible as you have stated in the past that you will argue the side of your country, whether it is right or wrong.
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  12. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Then you need to learn how to read properly. That does not say that I won't complain, only that there's little point in start a thread on a debate forum about it.
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  13. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    A hospital can and often are legitimate military targets.
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  14. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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  15. Dan Leach

    Dan Leach Climbing Staff Member Moderator

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34458270
    If this is true then the only reason seems to be incompetence.
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  16. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    As already posted:

    Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit and after such warning has remained unheeded.

    Was that condition met here? Do you care?
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  17. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    As stated, unless the U.S. had forces on the ground directing the bombing operation, it was not our responsibility to issue a warning.
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  18. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    They also were told by Afghan Forces the building was being used by the Taliban for military purposes. Fact.
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  19. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    This does not absolve them of responsibility for upholding the Geneva Convention. And until you stop ignoring my subsequent posts to your claims that that didn't apply, you will have as little credibility as Dayton.
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  20. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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  21. Beck

    Beck Monarchist, Nazi, Far-Right Whackaloon

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    I accidentally ran over a squirrel the other day. Shit happens.
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  22. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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  23. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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  24. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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  25. Quest

    Quest Let Freedom Ring! Staff Member Administrator

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    General Is Said to Think Afghan Hospital Airstrike Violated Rules

    WASHINGTON — The American commander in Afghanistan now thinks that United States troops who called in an airstrike that decimated a Doctors Without Borders hospital probably did not follow rules that allow for the use of air power only in dire situations, according to American officials with knowledge of the general’s thinking.

    Under those rules, airstrikes can be used to kill terrorist suspects, to protect American troops and to answer requests for help from the Afghan Army in battles that could significantly alter the military landscape in Afghanistan — such as the recent Taliban takeover of Kunduz — but not necessarily smaller firefights. The idea behind the rules of engagement was to give American troops leeway but not see them dragged back into daily, open-ended combat.

    In private discussions, Gen. John F. Campbell, the commander, has expressed his belief that the decision by Special Operations Forces operating “in the vicinity” of the Afghan troops in Kunduz likely did not meet any of those criteria, according to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter.

    The Special Operations Forces also apparently did not have “eyes on” — that is, were unable to positively identify — the area to be attacked to confirm it was a legitimate target before calling in the strike, the officials said.

    —————————

    Long article, but informative, and contains a sentence worth emphasizing:

    “A hospital was mistakenly struck,” [Gen. Campbell] said.

    Mistakenly. Not "enemy fighters were using it as a base." The military commander responsible for the attack admits it was a mistake.

    Looking good, indeed. :dayton:

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  26. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    This is... damning. Extremely damning.

    From The Guardian:
    It will obviously never happen, but the just thing would be to have the offending parties tried for war crimes in the Hague. Also note how the general in question now has admitted this was no "mistake", which means his initial reaction was to lie. He isn't exactly trustworthy.
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  27. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    Incorrect initial reactions are usually not lies. They only become lies when the statements are repeated after evidence demonstrates otherwise.
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  28. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    This, of course, is true, but would it not be easy enough to ascertain the truth in this case before making any statement? Especially when said statement is made at a press conference two days after the massacre?
  29. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 high speed, low drag

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    So.....the Afghan military knew it wasn't a military target, but didn't tell the gunship pilot/crew. Do those Afghans in that vicinity have a direct communications link? If so, was it a matter of not trusting or believing the information from the ground? What are the procedures in such a situation? Guarantee by now too much time has past to get to the truth - by that I mean if high ranking people fucked up they have used their power to shut everyone up, cover everything up, shifted blame, or have started the process of stalling for time. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it is.
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  30. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Yeah, that's likely the way things will play out.