What is the deal with the "12 year obsession" by Climate Changers?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Dayton Kitchens, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Correct.
    As K. pointed out, hot days are not the same as warming. They are an effect of warming, as well as of other things. But all else held equal, increased warming leads to increased hot days. The reverse is not necessarily true however, because of the other possible causes.

    Also, thank you, CC, for inspiring me to change my signature for the first time in... 15-ish years?
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  2. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    You cannot post a source associated with bias and bullshit and have it mean something. If there is valid research go to the original sources that did it and use the more reliable data. Otherwise we are arguing with something that is not there to argue back. You need to do your homework son, and not use some shady internet blog to do it for you.
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  3. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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  4. Quest

    Quest not leaving Staff Member Administrator

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    "Social intelligence of a sea sponge," you say? :chris:
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  5. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Wait five years and it's "until 2035."

    It'll never be "in six months."
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  6. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Obviously, since climate change is not a light switch.
    12 years is the estimated time period that we have to prevent 2 degrees of warming by the end of the century. It's a fairly arbitrary target but it is useful to focus minds. You know this, I suspect. Don't play stupid.
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  7. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Anti-Federalist

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    "A lie of omission is still a lie." Jean Luc Picard
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  8. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    In other words it's useful propaganda and nothing more.

    I'm certainly not "playing stupid" regarding this. It's something that's been of some interest to me and my political mentor (now unfortunately dead) for decades. However, I must admit to being a bit rusty on the research as of now.
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  9. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Anti-Federalist

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    Precisely, that's why the alarmists get ignored.
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  10. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    I think part of the problem is you are referring to reports in the popular (and social) media, whereas @K. is perhaps rather more comfortable going to source and reading the original papers. That's not for everyone, they can appear quite daunting and arcane at first, but they aren't by and large anywhere near as open to political bias or opinion.

    Over time hypotheses change, paradigms change, but they do so on the basis of disproving previous models and getting progressively closer to some approximation of truth, truth which is rarely binary and never interested in your political affiliation.

    Gravity doesn't care whether you are right or left wing, it doesn't care who you voted for. Thermodynamics couldn't give a stuff about Trump, or FoS, or the Mueller report, or funding bodies. They just exist and will continue to do so long after we are all gone.

    Climate change isn't really in doubt in the scientific data, that data doesn't have an agenda. Of course science operates in the real world and has to be funded. There are file drawer effects, there are funding limitations, there are hypotheses left untested because of the career implications and the credibility of the authors, all of these things happen without a doubt, but what science can't do is summon phenomena out of thin air in order to make a political statement.

    Climate change is happening. It's happened before, sure, it's been happening since a load of cast off chemical elements orbiting a giant fusion reaction started to coalesce and cool, but that doesn't really matter here. Everything we can see fits with the idea that not only is climate change happening, but it is happening in ways which are inextricably linked to ongoing patterns of human activity. For the first time in the billions of years there's been a planet on which climate change can happen there is an intelligence present which can not only observe the changes but influence them.

    If that's not significant enough for you I can't imagine anything which ever would be.
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  11. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    No, it's something which doesn't all happen overnight. The fact you can't put a date on a thing doesn't mean it isn't happening. Clearly it is and even if we do start talking about 2035, 2045 or even 2100 that's still the blink of an eye in geological terms. As far as previous trends go the entirety of human history is pretty much negligible, but this time it's happening much, much faster.
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  12. K.

    K. Sober

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    And a true statement isn't a lie at all.
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  13. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    Why the assumption that human caused climate change is bad?

    By the way, I just saw the clip of Cortez making the "12 year claim". She is now claiming she was being sarcastic when she said that.
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  14. K.

    K. Sober

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    No, she isn't.
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  15. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Anti-Federalist

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  16. GhostEcho

    GhostEcho Christian Conservative (Republican)

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    What do you make of this tweet then?
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  17. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Why 12 years? Because climate cycles are tied to Presidential election cycles.
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  18. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    Simply the fact that the climate is a complex, interdependent system, one which we have evolved within and are dependent upon.

    It could function with other parameters, sure, but it's unlikely those parameters will just coincidentally happen to suit our survival. Adaptable as we are there really is only a very limited set of conditions under which we can survive, much less thrive.

    We're way past the point where we are simple enough for systemic adaptations to our physiology due to selection pressures, especially in the time frames involved and any technological advances designed to provide us with "shelter" on any large scale will inevitably exacerbate the problem.

    There are two options, undo the damage before it can't be reversed, or die out and frankly much as I adore AOC she's not a scientist. She only has access to the same information you and I do.
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  19. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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  20. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Trolling No Jutsu Formerly Important

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    909f5877-1798-451e-9bcb-efa42f9d216c.jpg
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  21. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    Clearly the environment is a leftist.
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  22. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    I see humanity as being far, far more adaptable than you are suggesting.
  23. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    So what adaptations have you observed since the Industrial Revolution?
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  24. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    We require a very specific mix of gases, nutrients, lighting conditions, temperatures, back ground radiation levels and humidity, to name but a few factors.

    For the vast bulk of our planets' life cycle thus far it would have been utterly uninhabitable for human beings (or mammals in general), we are living in a very small window of opportunity and are shortening it daily.Make no mistake, the Earth has been a hostile environment before and very easily could be again.
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  25. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    Indeed, and it is why we now live in the Anthropocene instead of the Holocene. Humans have become so numerous and have affected the world’s systems to such a degree, we’re now directly responsible for the direction the earth goes in next.
  26. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    A technological society can survive in hostile environments.
  27. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Human beings routinely survive being 35,000 feet high in the stratosphere, or 500 feet underwater, or orbiting the Earth for months on end.

    They build dams and reservoirs and irrigate arid land for productive use. They build dykes to reclaim usable land from the sea.

    They drain swamps. They re-direct rivers.

    They insulate their homes and have heaters to live in cold climates, air conditioning and ceiling fans to live in hot ones.

    They relocate easily when their environment is destroyed by floods or earthquakes or hurricanes.

    They build roads to access remote places, and to make the movement of goods and people easier.

    They build canals to expedite movement of material and people with ships.

    They destroy dangerous or disease-carrying pests.

    They eradicate diseases.

    They engineer crops to be robust in their environment and to maximize the productive benefit of the land.

    There's no end of human adaptation.
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  28. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Anti-Federalist

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    There are people living in Antarctica FFS.
  29. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    Faux news fact checking? That was a funny one.

    Do you also check your broken watch for the weather?
  30. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    Yet a primitive society can also survive in hostile environments. The technological society goes to shit when they don't have access to their technology if said technology is what allows them to cope with the hostile environment. The more primitive society considers the hostile environment "business as usual" for the most part.
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