What is the deal with the "12 year obsession" by Climate Changers?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Dayton Kitchens, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    Obvious strawman is obvious.

    A natural geological shift which has not only taken many millions of years and is still happening, one which is very much part of the evolutionary heritage which gradually shaped us as a species and the ecosystem we inhabit, is not remotely comparable to an unnatural ecological change happening in the order of individual years affecting an ecosystem and a species which cannot remotely hope to adapt quickly enough.
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  2. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Since the first of these statements implies that you haven't understood the issue, then yes - you are.
    You ought to be aware that two degrees of warming will be very very tough to deal with and that more will be catastrophic. Feel free to suggest an alternate strategy to promote action in this area other than setting such targets.

    Is this mentor the guy who turned you on to Stalinism? It's fairly characteristic of that that it would lead you to declare reality itself (when you don't like it) as reactionary.
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  3. spot261

    spot261 George "The Animal" Steele tribute act

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    It's strange how some people will default to politics when presented with science and that isn't a dig at anyone in particular, more an observation. It's as though we believe that reality comes secondary to concepts of our making and can be changed or manipulated on ideological grounds, much like when the church persecuted Galileo and Darwin.

    The planet Earth doesn't care about our politics, it doesn't vote. If it were conscious it probably wouldn't have noticed we're here at all except as an irritating rash and a bit of a temperature.
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  4. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    "Stalinism."

    Yeah, you jumped the shark.
  5. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    You (among others) act as though everything regarding climate change is so called "settled science". That there is nothing new to learn about it and nothing new even possible to learn about it. Science isn't like that and I'm sure you know it.
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  6. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love

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    In all honesty, I am kind of curious myself. Your avatar has the hammer and sickle in it so it seems, on the surface, that you support some form of communism. That doesn’t mean Stalin’s idea of communism, of course.
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  7. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    So which parts of the USA are you offering as a place for people to move to when some existing areas can't support the same size populations?
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  8. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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  9. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Jesus fucking Christ, the techno-fetishists in this thread saying "we'll adapt".

    Yeah, that's exactly what scientists are screaming out needs to happen. We need to adapt and start adapting yesterday.
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  10. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    I don't call shutting down the use of fossil fuels "adapting".

    More like giving up.
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  11. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    The sooner we transition everything that we can, the longer and more safely we can keep using fossil fuels for those areas its currently irreplaceable.
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  12. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Page 36 is especially interesting.

    A page of discussion on the troubles that would be had in the next couple of decades (from their 1982) perspective separating temperature changes from background noise, and the ways it would become detectable beyond that.

    Guess how current conditions go against their "if it's happening this is what we'll see" predictions.
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  13. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I am not offering.

    The changes--if they occur--will occur on a long time-scale, decades or longer. No one's going to wake up tomorrow and find their country suddenly can't support half the population (unless you live in Venezuela).

    People will adapt.
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  14. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Liberal Queen of TNZ

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    Has it always been 12 years? Because I’ve heard a lot about climate change over my life and don’t recall 12 years being mentioned until recently. It was always roughly mid-century 21st century, which we’re getting closer to.
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  15. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Corn of Coblin

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    Al Gore told us NY and FL would be underwater by now. Then flew off in his private jet.
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  16. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    No, for decades it's been that around 2030 is where we would see a tipping point from where massive change is unavoidable.

    The 12 years talk is all based around the fact that the predictions for how we would start to see changes manifesting are playing out as predicted, heavily suggesting we need to get off our asses and do something about it.
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  17. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Liberal Queen of TNZ

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    He didn't. He did say that according to some scientists, that the Arctic ice would be melted during the summer by 2014. But that doesn't fit your bullshit narrative. He was cherry picking data from more alarmist scientists.

    His statement about New York flooding is about if the ice covering Greenland and half the Antarctic melted, which could potentially happen. But I can't seem to find any proof about it happening in 2014 outside of rightwing conspiracy sites who are just making shit up for stupid people to ingest and masturbate over.
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  18. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Be reasonable. If around 2030 is the tipping point then by any reasonable measure it is already too late. The chances of getting massive policy changes in effect at this point to have a real chance of altering climate changes is just not going to happen.

    Even if a Democratic president was elected in 2020 and every last idea in AOCs suggested "Green New Deal" was passed into law (and other major nations followed suit), then little would be achieved soon enough to make a difference.

    Time for a new game plan.

    How about we try some geoengineering?
  19. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Changing the use of land/resources and populations moving are how we have historically adapted to changes like this.
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  20. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    It's true we are basically at the point now where we are going to see massive global change no matter what.

    However we can limit how bad it gets.
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  21. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Liberal Queen of TNZ

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    Yeah, things like building dams and preparing areas with low elevations to deal with flooding. Also building infrastructure to prepare for more extreme weather, droughts and other issues that are likely to crop up.
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  22. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Corn of Coblin

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    Man bear pig!!!
    :ohnoes:
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  23. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Liberal Queen of TNZ

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    So you have nothing? Thought so, thanks for proving you aren't interesting in facts.
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  24. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Corn of Coblin

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    I’m interested in facts, not alarmists.
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  25. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Liberal Queen of TNZ

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    Then prove it.
  26. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Liberal Queen of TNZ

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    Still using manbearpig is just funny now because the guys who made it up realized they were wrong and actively harmed the discourse over climate change by giving idiots a goto reference.
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  27. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    You're asking him to prove a negative? You do not ask someone to do that in debate or discussion.

    Try it here and @garamet will jump all over you.
    That is she will if you're not on her side.
  28. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Liberal Queen of TNZ

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    That's not proving a negative. He'd just have to start providing facts, not insisting something is true and refusing to engage when corrected. You don't understand what proving a negative is, unless you also think that he's lying and is not interested in actual facts. So are you an idiot or did you just reveal your hand?
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  29. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Neither. I just wanted a dig at @garamet while I was at it.
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  30. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Corn of Coblin

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