Differences, Similarities and Aftermaths

A natural disaster. Mandatory evacuations. Half million plus people displaced from their homes. A football arena set up as an emergency shelter.

Hurricane Katrina and the So. Cal. wildfires of 2007 have more than a bit in common.

And certainly more than a few differences.

A friend of mine asked why the extreme difference in reaction by the respective residents.

A question that clearly deserved the Red Room once over.


What do you think?

I dunno...I have theories and all...

But one thing is that I think the wealthier SoCal residents can afford to just up leave easier (they have $$$ to travel, live/stay somewhere else) and will be able to afford to rebuild easier than those in LA.

Another aspect, I think, is that Californians were twice forewarned: They saw Katrina happen, and it's not the first time they had to deal with fires either, albeit perhaps rarely on this scale. New Orleans was a new situation both in terms of flooding and in terms of major urban crisis.

There are significant differences. Just as there were significant differences between New Orleans and Mississippi.

The major difference between CA and Katrina is this. The people didn't sit back waiting for people to tell them what to do. When they were asked to voluntarily leave, most folks did. They saw to their own safety, again, not waiting for the government to come in and help them.

Secondly, the people themselves worked together to help each other rather than waiting.

San Diego being a good example. People went there as a temporary shelter. Some are saying it is like a big tail gate party. Businesses and restaurants in the area are donating food, supplies, and helping folks out. In the Orange County area where the Santiago Canyon fires are blazing, very similar is taking place. They are using locations such as local high school's. El Modena High School is one of the local high schools in the City of Orange that is being used.

Bottom line here is the people. They are working together and are not waiting for the government.

The south has hurricanes regularly. New Orleans was not the only city that was affected by Hurricane Katrina. They happen to be the ones who at least from my perspective whined the most and did the least of what was necessary to help themselves out. They didn't evacuate when ordered too, they didn't evacuate when they were voluntarily requested too.

Mississippi did not have the problems that with recovery or for that matter dealing with the emergency as it happened.

I think you're right, K1A. The same thing happened in Mississippi. It was pretty hard hit as well by Katrina but seems to be recovering faster and more completely.

And so you are saying that the folks in SoCal were not just relying on Big Government to help them out!?

Who are you, and what did you do with Kirk?

It really is how we as a people react to these things. Going back to natural disasters in general. In CA, we have had historical differences in how we deal with earthquakes as well. We had significant quakes in both Northern CA and Southern CA at different times. Each were declared both state and federal disasters which provided emergency funds from both the state and federal government.

You head up to the Oakland area and the Nimitz highway is still in much the same shape that it was right after the quakes. You head to LA which had some significant highway damage all of it has been repaired. in fact it was repaired in record time. Builders were offered huge bonus's if they completed the work ahead of schedule. In fact the money was so significant they ignored some union regulations (which pissed them off) and had people working around the clock.

Follow the dollars, please. Have you been to NO? Pass Christian? Bay St. Louis? Since the storm? I have. Talking to people down there, the sense is that federal dollars flowed much more easily into Miss. than they did into Louisiana.

Wonder why? Hailey Barbour, former chair of the RNC happens to be governor of Mississippi.

Big government has played nearly no role at this point.

Excuse me?

It just seems odd that you would say something nice about the people on the Left coast...and something about them NOT relying on government to boot.

Again, the problem there wasn't the fed. Take a look at the local government. Look to the governor and Nagin for those problems. After the last round of major fires in CA, several recommendations were made for dealing with the fires. LA County made some moves to follow a few of those recommendations. To the tune of purchasing something like 18 water dropping helicopters. They purchased certain types of bulldozers and have contracted with companies that own water dropping jet aircraft. SD did similar as did SB county. Orange County purchased two Vietnam era helicopters and that was it. Hell we even have Todd Spitzer from Orange County complaining about not having enough resources in OC. Well what the hell was he doing when he was a sitting member of the OC Board of Supervisors during some of those discussions on allocating funds for these things.

Ah, more partisan bullshit. Each of these areas had access to federal funds after they were declared federal disaster areas. The state and local governments are the ones who let their citizens down. It is their job to apply the funds that are received.

Just as it has been the case in CA.

Yes, how odd. Saying something nice about people who do not sit on their rears waiting for big brother to step in and play parent.

I haven't personally been but I have talked to people who've gone to provide assistance and the attitudes on the ground are different.

You mention Barbour. I don't think he's the cause of the differences but, rather, a symptom of the kind of people you're dealing with. NO is mostly Democratic, believers that government should give them everything. Mississippians are mostly Republican and individualistic believing that they are the ultimate answer to their own problems.

Yes but these are lefty Hollywood Hillary For Prez BIG GOVERNMENT types you are saying something nice about.

Not to defend Kirk , but San Diego in particular is hardly a bastion of liberalism.

It is a shame you don't know what you are talking about. CA is a big state. Southern California where the fires are taking place is a very large area. Get a fucking clue.

Wow you're a dick.

There are alot of different factors. Louisianna has notoriously corrupt and ineffecient local and state governments. Throw in massive poverty in the area (no where to go and no way to get there) with a much larger area of destruction (homes evacuated is not a good indicator, LA and MS had literally hundreds of miles of destruction, includeing road water and power infastructure, Southern CA a few hot spots) and of course you are going to get much different results.

You are an ass attempting to turn this into a Democrat/Republican issue when it is not. This is an issue where a large group of people in CA are doing what they can to get through a natural disaster. There was a question asked about similarities and differences. Rather than discussing the topic you chose to discuss me. While I'm flattered you should actually get a clue about the topic being discussed and stick to that. Rather than making a ridiculous attempt to turn this into a political issue on something you appear to know jack shit about.

NM

Couple of things that should be pointed out:

1. It's much easier, logistically speaking, to deal with wildfires than a hurricane/flood, because in the latter case road travel is at a standstill. In a documentary about "California's Katrina" - a what-if scenario about a storm-caused flood in Sacramento - Sacramento's huge advantage over New Orleans would be that people could still move about and work on the levees as needed during the worst storm (we don't get hurricanes; this would merely be a big rainstorm that stalls over the city, without the winds, etc.)

2. California has done a lot of tweaking to its emergency planning since Katrina, with an eye toward doing more for itself in a disaster.

3. Southern California was not entirely shut down by the fires, as New Orleans was after Katrina.

Granted there were political differences as well. Arnold is a smart guy, all things considered.

Absolutely correct.

Like I said in the threads immediately after Katrina. The government really should never be your Plan A. And if it is, there had better be a Plan B.

Yes, it is.

Emphasis mine.

There's also the fundamental difference between flood and fire.

I'm skeptical so many people were actually evacuated. Given the typical traffic in LA, I just don't see a million-person evacuation actually happening.