An Auto Industry Marketing Question...

...'cos while I understand marketing, I don't work in the auto industry (specifically GM), so maybe I don't get the "big picture".

Pontiac has a long history and a series of iconic cars: Bonneville. Grand Prix. GTO. Firebird....

So why the Hell have they thrown all this out the window for their drab, uninspired current naming convention: G8, G6, G5?

"I'll pick you up at seven. We'll take the Bonneville."
"I'll pick you up at seven. We'll take the G8."
One evokes an image of class, comfort, and power. The other evokes a Bingo game in the church basement.

So what is GM thinking?

If I were running Pontiac, here's what I'd do:

You got your Bonneville for your big, top-of-the-line sedan. Powerful. Classy.

Then you have your GTO for your performance coupe. Big, mean, and badass.

In between you have the Grand Prix. Still a nice car, but a bit more affordable than the Bonneville or the GTO.

Finally, you have the Firebird for a sports car. (Actually, I'd be tempted to just chuck Firebird and go with Trans Am.)



Sure, there's some holes in my mix--no minivan, no economy models, not trucks or SUVs. And I'm primarily targeting the market I know--30-40 year old white males. But hey, I'm working for free here so I'll focus on what I like.

Because studies have shown that people buy cars with numbers too them. I think this started about the time with the 240, 260, 280Z cars from datsun and the z28 from chevy. This is why the car datsun sold here was the 210 and when it sold in the UK it was the blueberry

There's a legacy behind the names. People get angry when their new GTO doesn't live up to their image of what it should be (even though it's a fine car in its own right), and new buyers (like Pontiac's intended demographic) just want something new.

Bah. Good answers on both counts. My trolling is foiled!

(Oh--and I meant to say that the Grand Prix would be both a sedan and a coupe.)

BRING BACK THE FIREBIRD/TRANS AM!!

Ditto what Alphaman said!!

The car I'd like to see brought back...

....exactly the fucking way it was.

1987 Buick Grand National

Nice engine, ugly body.

You're a gay.

I like the old style, boxy look.

Every car since the mid 90's has looked like one of several incarnations of a supository.

Pontiac hasn't been the same since DeLorian left.

The G8 is actually going to be used to bring back the El Camino, though a proper name hasn't been chosen yet.

I was always of the mind that GM screwed the pooch whe they discontinued them. Good to see they pulled their heads out for a breath.

I've always liked that gen. Grand Nasties were/are some serious freakin' fun when you kick the turbo.

A lot of that supository look is for aerodynamics as we know but they are getting a bit cookie cutter lacking the sharp lines of old. The reintroduction of the Mustang and the Camaro will be a nice change from the rounded over econobox crap.

I liked the way American cars looked in the old days. Now all they do is imitate how the Japanese cars look.

I say bring back the boxy, chromed look.

Detroit suffers from the same problem as Hollywood: a lack of quality and imagination.

I'd welcome a real bumper instead of these honeycombed molded crap with a skin over it designed to make money for the insurance companies.

Besides, I like to push things every once and a while.

The pot calling the tree black.

Did I miss something?

How am I wrong?

God-damn. I gotta say, that's a nice job. Only thing I'd change is I'd got with the gold, quasi-"spoke" wheels, like the old Bandit ones.

[Edit: Oh, and while they were wildly impractical and would make the door line on this rendering trickier, I'd like to see it with a T-top.

Edit, edit: It looks like they were going for the scoop on the quarterpanel, at about one o'clock to the wheel, but I'd make that slightly more pronounced. Still... very cool. ]

So those are fake?

Very fake.

Yeah, it's guys like me who, disgusted with Detroit, have done CGI interpretations they'd like to see. I'm not the only guy that's done a take on the Charger and while the one I Googled up is a lot more professional rendering, I prefer the lines I did on mine.

I've done my versions of the GTO, the Charger, and the Dodge Avenger--all in CorelDraw.

Whoops, one more comment in re: Chris' reply about iconic brands being a liability because you wind up disappointing people--I can understand that argument, but I also think it is a bit of a cop-out. Look at what Ford has managed to do with the Mustang. When they went for the retro look, around 1996 it had some promise, but it was a bit...funny. But they kept at it and kept refining it. By the time they got to the 2004 models, I really didn't see what they could do to further improve the look. Then they brought out the current model.

It is a crime to have a great, iconic brand and run it into the ground.

Anyway, this is the new coupe from Pontiac.

What's worse is when they build a car, and EVERY FUCKING CAR MAGAZINE puts it on their cover with titles like "The Car to Save Ford", "If You Build it They Will Come", "Build it Ford, Build it." And then they do nothing (as of yet).





The Interceptor Concept uses a Ford Racing 5.0-liter Cammer engine producing 400 horsepower (300 kW), with the capability of running on E-85 ethanol. It includes a manual six-speed transmission. The 5.0-liter Cammer engine is an upgraded variant of the 4.6-liter modular engine currently powering the Mustang GT.






(okay, how do I resize a linked picture so it fits in the window)

Well, Alpha, the gold one that resembles the Camaro would likely be the one produced if history were to come into play IMO. Then again, they may go for the next gen for lines of similarity to seperate it from it's cousin.

I so look forward to test driving a new Camaro when they roll in a year or two. Hopefully it'll have a better setup in the cockpit because the last gen was way too small for a 6'4" man especially working a four speed. The crash ratings were the suck too.

Once again, Detroit could take some lessons from the Japs.

Toyota built the FJ Cruiser as a concept car for a car show, and it was such a big hit that they put it into production. They're selling like hotcakes. I'm in the process of taking on a 2nd job so I can buy one. I'll be getting my FJ Cruiser with a month if all goes well.

Well, MD sorta stole the my thunder. I was gonna riff on Anc's post and say that that is Exhibit A of why Detroit is a city of doomed pigfuckers. Because the whole point of an auto show is to find out what the public likes.

Now a non-retarded person would take that to the next step and say you want to find out what the public likes so you can build it and sell it to them. But this concept seems beyond the grasp of Detroit automakers. I guarantee you--wild eco-friendly bubble concept cars aside, if Japan brings a concept car to the auto show they know what it would take to build it and if the public loves it, they'll have the fucker for sale in a year--two, tops.

How many cool concepts have we seen from Detroit that never go to production. Everyone loves the new Camaro. When will we see it? Maybe 2009. Maybe 2010. Maybe never. It's a complete waste of resources to spend millions developing something to show if you have no intention of bringing it to market. (OK, maybe not a complete waste, but it is a big waste.)

The Camaro is in Austrailia getting the bugs worked out and some final changes via Holden. It's coming. Save your nickles and dimes man.

And this is Exhibit B:

Eh. I guess it isn't horrible. It isn't the abortion that Pontiac was making in the early 1990s. But it basically looks to me like they took about a 2002 Honda, stuck some after-market rims on it, gave it hood scoops and a split grille and called it the "'new' coupe from Pontiac". If is want something that looks almost as nice as a Japanese car with almost as good a performance and reliability, I'll get a Hyundai--and pay $15,000 less.

Compare that with this:



So there you have it. Some guy, in his free time, because he loves Pontiac cars and has some idea of what a Pontiac should look like, was able to come up with a far cooler Pontiac coupe than the best team of designers Pontiac could put together could do--and Pontiac has a vested interest in building cars people will want to buy.

I mean shit, GM's designers are so retarded that it didn't occur to them that a Cadillac isn't a fastback. GM's marketing is so retarded that they took their one clearly differentiated line, Saturn, and threw that out the window. Saturn used to be about practical, economical, unconventional cars. Now they've got a roadster and an SUV. They're pretty much like everyone else--only they are freaking Saturn. I mean, let's face it--who buys sports cars? If you're dropping $30,000 on a car you don't want to have to tell you friends you drive a Saturn.

Heh. They've got a commercial running right now where a guy walks into a Saturn dealership and is confused. He's clearly looking for a practical, economical car and he's looking at SUVs and roadsters. The salesman assures him he's in a Saturn dealership. Now if I had money to waste, I'd shoot a parody of that commercial--identical in every way--only in the end when the salesman says "Yes, this is a Saturn dealer," the guy would just shake his head and walk out.