No it's not the Onion.

I'll take "Statements That Don't Contradict Each Other" for $1000, Alex!

More logs, obviously.

I should have mentioned in my initial comment that this guy* also provides all of the initial logs.

* "This guy" meaning "the guys who supply the startup cash" in a general case so to speak.

Okay. You love an ideal, and that's fine, but how does that reflect the reality that is one's country? Anyone can say my fictionalized vision of my country is the best, but that really only exists in your mind.

Your country is what it is, as is mine. You have to judge it based on what it is, not what you want it to be.

Well the answer is obvious, let's commission a Congressional Committee For The Creation Of Economic Sparks, and fully fund the log budget.

Wonder Twin Bureacracy, activate!!!

Oh, and here I thought we were talking about real, quantifiable numbers, which show that out of all the 1st world economies out there that the US is clearly one of the lowest tax rates - not based on income taxes, but when taking all taxes across the board into consideration. Only 3rd world shitholes consistently have lower tax rates than us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP#cite_note-0

But we were talking about an opinion, not hard data?

Oh, an opinion is OK then.

Any idiot can have one of those.

Carry on. :santa_ok:

Well, maybe if you guys whined just a little less about how overtaxed you are, your love for your country might have a chance to get a word in edgewise.

What the hell happened to you? Geez.

Either way, if you want to talk about who creates jobs, small business does. And guess what kind of tax rates small business in the US pays? Highest corporate tax in the world.

There is a reason the US economic engine is sputtering.

Comparably, the corporate tax rate in Canada for small business is 11%.

Socialist bastards.

How do those rates compare with the rates paid by large businesses in the U.S.?

Get back to me when I start spouting obvious "no really, I'm not a closet case" anti-gay stuff.

In the mean time, I'd really like to hear what people who propagate the "CLOSE THE LOOPHOLES!!!111oneoneone" crap is supposed to accomplish, other than punishing people they don't like.

The majority of businesses in the United States are small business sole proprietorships, meaning that the predominant method of funding for businesses is through personal funding or small business loans. No venture capitalist in their right mind would give money to a non incorporated business, which means the old job creator schtick is just a fallacy.

That's just not true.

The hell of it is they don't.

Large businesses can afford the army of lawyers that allow them to exploit all the loopholes, and suddenly their tax rate is around 10%.

Which is exactly why the 15% rate would be perfect. Across the board for everyone.

While this may be true, venture capitalists still give a lot of money to 'startups' who happen to create a lot of new jobs in the US. Especially in the internet/tech community.

Facebook and Google are great examples. They now have thousands of employees, and most of them are in the US.

But I agree that the majority of businesses are generally 'small businesses'....many of which have nothing to do with venture capitalists.

Don't we have a thread on that very thing?

I've said it before, but I'll repeat it: the principal problem with our (US) taxes is not the rates, but the complexity.

Simplify, simplify, simplify.

And guess what percentage of small businesses pay corporate income tax?

18.5%

And of those 18.5% of small businesses who pay corporate income tax, at least 40% of them fall in a bracket that limits their maximum corporate federal income tax rate to 22.25% (there are likely to be many more but the Census statistics aren't broken down by the same brackets).

So roughly 90% of the small businesses in the United States are either not subject to corporate income tax rates, or don't pay the high corporate income taxes that you speak of.

If the economic engine of the US is sputtering, it's not over taxes, it's more likely due to regulations. But we won't really hear anything about that, because regulations aren't a burden to the type of "job creators" that Congress cozies up to, but are rather a barrier to entry to smaller enterprises.

Yeah, get all those surgical spreaders, and tubes, and pipes, and wires, and oscillating thing-a-ma-bobs out of the ass, and go right for the fist.

Sure, those are great examples, but they're the exception rather than the norm, and a far cry from the "without venture capitalists no businesses would be formed."

You know something interesting? In 2010, President of the United States of America, Barack Hussein made 1.7 million dollars. After deductions, he paid 26% in taxes.

Part of that is deductions, part of it is how marginal taxation works.

Rule 1: Every private sector job is a partnership between an employer and an employee, entered into because both parties expect to be richer for it. Fucking Period.

I realize there's a lot of bitching right now because many people who need a job cannot find a partner. There's been a clear reduction in demand, and we simply don't need everyone working in order to satisfy these new levels of consumption.

But an employer's expectation of making a profit from a new hire is not just based on demand. It's based on demand, costs of doing business, level of risk, and other variables that combine to make a new employee an attractive investment.

And my problem is that the useful idiots of this country -- from the lowliest Diacanu basement dweller all the way up to Warren Buffett -- consistently want to coerce employers into hiring, when I've seen no effort to cut costs and risks, and other barriers to entry that are all well within reach of the government.

I say we leave those guns holstered until we've actually done everything we can to make hiring profitable again. For a refreshing change.

It's amazing how many drones you can buy with a CEO's salary.

So, once again, the middle class and small businesses carry the mega-corporations.

and when consumers can't afford to consume because they're under paid for the work they do, well what happens to this cycle?
Anyone? Or shall we just harp on how minimum wages cause inflation and are theft?

Meh. Mega corporations do pay taxes. Some do at least.

I think if you said the middle class and small businesses are carrying the American people you would be closer to the truth.

Obviously, (and I am talking to you too, The Defender) I'm only talking about the same cases that the man in the OP is talking about, business that WERE funded with venture capital.

So, yes, it just IS true.

So to summarize, if you read my comment as "Without the venture capital he provided, no business of any kind anywhere in the world would ever be formed and no jobs of any kind anywhere in the world would ever be created" then you read it wrong. I admit my wording could have been better.

At the same rate as small businesses?

Some do = some don't. So, unlike small businesses, they get to decide, based on how many lawyers they employ, whether they do or not. I.e., it's "voluntary."

How ever you word it, it comes down to the middle-class and small business owners paying a disproportionate percentage of taxes because the poor can't and the wealthy won't.

So go ahead, what's in that black box called liberal economic theory?


Cause it looks to me like gubmint mainly accomplishes job-destructive stuff like delaying the Keystone pipeline, regulating till it kills 'em then subsidizing 'em, giving 'em bails-outs, or tax tax tax tax tax, or the occasional dose of send em all stimulus checks or something populist but ultimately meaningless like a one-per-cent payroll tax holiday.

Yes, it's so obvious that's what you meant, and there's no possibility you had an error in your thought process. Also up is down, and my name is Barack Obama.

Understatement of the day right here.

It might sound like that to you but he's an honest fellow and it's clear that that's what he meant from the context, while you otoh are perhaps a cut above an idiot.

[And I mean that as a compliment, not a flame, to explain why you might have missed the contextual meaning. ]