Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Students

Okay so ESL was too broad but all I could get in the space alloted. This doesen't count those immigrant black students who's English skills are so bad they can't be in regular classes. Just those who are in mainstream classes but who's family speaks another language.

Also some area info. SE Seattle is a majority minority section of the city (about 1/5 black, 1/5 Asian, 1/5 white, 1/5 latino, 1/5 mixed/other) and one of the poorer regions. Seattle also has one of the largest Somali populations in the US. While there are other black migrants they are the largest so that's why they are often compared to native black americans.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017046660_newgap19m.html

The obvious answer is to outlaw the speaking of English at home.



"However, district officials said they need to study the new data further before speculating about the reasons for it or making policy changes in response."

Luckily, we here at WF don't have that problem, so why do you think this pattern exists and what can be done to fix it?

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Ayup, there we go.

Kids will usually meet with any expectation they grow up with.

/Thread

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Yeah, starting multiple threads with little or no comment is kinda Midnight Funeral's thing.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

I'll usually throw in some comment or highlight something I thought was interesting but I don't begrudge just throwing out an interesting article. Sometimes I honestly don't know what to think of something and want to hear what others think. (really!)

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

I'd imagine this explains much of the difference in test scores.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Fixed.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Immigrant blacks don't have the culture of low achievement that native blacks do? This isn't surprising. But it's yet another reason that no one in the education system should be judged or handicapped by race, but by their background, particularly economic background.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Kids in general seem to hate getting an education, though. They seem to think it's cool to be morons for some reason.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

I find it interesting b/c it pretty much controls for a lot of factors. Migrant Blacks aren't any better off economically than native Blacks, at least not in Seattle where as the article says most are refugees. Also they are in the same neighborhoods, going to the same schools. And while it sounds too obvious to mention, they have the same skin color.

Now it's not to say that income, poor schools, and skin color aren't factors, obviously all groups perform below average, but it really does pare lead to the conclusion that there is something cultural that is contributing to the poor performance of native Blacks.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

I blame rap music.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Don't have the stat ready to hand but aren't Chinese / Asian Americans doing the best academically of all groups? And don't they have the strongest cultural valuation for education?

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

At some point, the apologists are going to have to give up "racism" as the source of all American blacks' woes. I'd suggest that someone study the culture of young blacks (particularly males) and see why so many have an anti-education, anti-intellectual outlook. As a recent student at local community colleges, I've seen lots of black East Africans, recently immigrated and still learning English, working hard in college-level classes, but a shocking dearth of American black males. There is no shortage of opportunity; the difference has to be in personal motivation...

(I'd also note that my company hired a young Ethiopian immigrant as an engineer last year. Amharic is his first language he and still has something of an accent. But he'd completed a master's degree in Engineering nonetheless. We get virtually zero [native] black applicants and have no black males in any position of responsibility in the company.)

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

FTFY

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Quoted for emphasis. It's not about language as much as it's about culture, social strata, and familial expectations.

Not to mention the fact that public schools in middle-class black neighborhoods have sounder infrastructure and attract more committed veteran teachers. Schools in the 'hood (at least in New York) are assigned recent college grads with no experience who burn out in a year or so, and then those schools are stuck with the hacks who have tenure, can't be fired, and just phone it in.

Numerous factors go into those results, not just the language spoken at home.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

^While I might agree that the poorer you are, the less stellar your public school is likely to be, the same phenomenon appears to exist outside of the lower class. As I said, I've noted lots of black women pursuing higher education in my area, but few of their male counterparts.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

They regularly run news stories about black students in Memphis who are beat up for doing well. They're male students, and the message is "book learning isn't of the hood."

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

This is a well known phenomenon. Essentially US immigration laws make it easier to immigrate if you are educated; the higher your degree the easier it is. That means foreign born blacks tend to be skewed towards with having advanced degrees while US born blacks tend to be the least educated of any group. Even Native Americans get degrees at higher rates than US born blacks.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

I guess my question would be what becomes of their male counterparts. Do they go directly into the job market post-high school and, if so, why?

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Weird that the test scores only break out east Africans.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

It helps if you read the article.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Well 1/4 go to prison, mostly for non-violent drug offenses.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

[before reading thread]


It's culture, not race.

Always.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

Random thought, but I wonder if it is just coincidence that the largest Somali populations ended up in the two areas with the largest % people with Scandinavian ancestory? Was the Luthern church big with resettlement or something? Maybe Somalis love lutefisk?

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

There is that.

Lutheran World Relief and various Lutheran-based resettlement efforts would certainly be a good guess. Because somehow I don't see the climate in MN being a big draw, do you?

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

I believe it has to do with white guilt.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

You also believe the Earth is 6,000 years old, so we'll be certain to take you just as seriously as you deserve.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

As for only East Africans, it's a moot point. I've only run across West Africans myself, but they are all high achievers as well.

The X Factor here (mentioned already) is that legal immigration standards are HIGH thus only the smart get in! Native born people can be dumb as a bag of hammers (all races fall into this category) but we don't need to import any. :santa_grin:

Another factor is that the immigrant blacks appreciate the American education system because they went to school using orange crates as desks and now they are in (to their eyes) the land of milk and honey.

Thus race has jack-shit to do with intelligence, but culture has everything to do with achievement.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

:hh:

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

One theory of mine is that black girls have more female role models than black boys have male role models. With an eighty percent illegitimacy rate in the black community, more and more women are seeing that they need to be able to take care of themselves with something outside of government assistance. That's the reason why half the Army is black females.

Re: Blacks who speak English at home perform WORSE in Math and Reading than ESL Black Stud

We do have more than our fair share, that's for sure.