Another post on race and prejudice!

So this kind of fits in with the discussion about to what extent can purposefully altering perception counter racism that we have going in a few other threads. But it also raises another question, which is whether everything is necessarily about race when it simply happens to regard somebody or a group that is a certain race, having a negative interaction with somebody or a group from another race.

This article describes an incident on a California wine country excursion during which a group of women were ejected from the train. They were all black, and they were ejected after other passengers had complained that their boisterous behavior was overly disruptive to the excursion.

Yes, I think they were signaled out, but why? Maybe they were signaled out for being obnoxious. According to the railroad, they have to kick passengers out once a month or so. Do we know whether it's only black passengers? I'm not so sure this is about race, but because one of the ejected passengers (who describes herself as active in social networking) decided it was, then that story gets out on to the Intertubes. Maybe they were just acting like assholes?

What say you, Wordforge?

Is there a disparate impact against people of color?

If someone has racist motivations but those motivations weren't revealed then no proof exits that their ejection was race motivated. Being a minority doesn't provide one with an excuse to play the race card to excuse poor behaviour. In fact, playing the race card is counter-productive when there is no proof.

They were singled out because another passenger was, for whatever reason, a dick:

They were on a wine tasting tour and wine was being served. Of course it was a fucking bar.

It's not race, it's a culture clash. They were likely acting like Rodney Dangerfield in Caddy Shack, and the more reserved country club members threw them out.

On a train?

This was the Napa wine train. It is an old steam engine line from the 19th century whose tracks wind through the valley giving views of the vineyards, the mountains, the forests, and the river. There is wine tasting on the train plus they do allow people to open their own bottles though, obviously, the company would prefer you buy from them. The train ticket comes with dinner and it is quite a fancy affair where men are encouraged to wear a suit and tie. The dinning car features a man playing live on a piano.

Tickets aren't cheap.

http://winetrain.com

The one I was on (in 2003) was a steam train but the one pictured is newer (probably 1950's).

Isn't this the wine tasting train trip referred to a couple of times in "The Big Bang Theory"?

I can see uptight wine connoisseur types being pissy about "those people"* being allowed on.

*by which I mean "anyone that's not a snob like us, to include the borderline rednecks and beatnik hippies"

IMO it was a class thing, not a race thing. Pretty much anyone I know would have been kicked off the...........oh who the hell am I kidding? Nobody I know would even want to be at an event where you have to wear a tie or "sip" anything alcoholic. We are more of a "wino" train crowd.
BTW I wore a suit and tie for ten minutes this weekend as a favor for my family (don't ask). No pants though, just workout shorts and tennis shoes.

Yep. They serve a narrow niche of delivering a very high-end and romantic setting for people who have spent quite a bit of money for a special experience. Colicky screaming babies, drunk rednecks singing Waylon Jennings songs, and frat boys trying to party up would just ruin it for everybody else. Snooty restaurants stay snooty by not allowing their atmosphere to get hijacked by people who are in the wrong mode of behavior, even though all their customers at some other point in the week will likely be screaming and dancing or singing karaoke in some loud gin joint with a bunch of other drunken rabble.

When we're in a library we don't carry on like we're in a bar or at a basketball game, even if we're with the same friends we are with at those other venues.

So many people think "freedom" means the "right to act like an ass"

Hmmm.......I think my idea of a "high end romantic experience" might be a "ride" of a different sort then.

That pretty well describes my experience with wine and trains.

This was the most likely reason. I'm sure if it was white women being loud and rambunctious the same result would have happened. If race was an issue they never would have made it on the train in the first place.

Reading the article further it stated people are kicked off that train at least once month. I highly doubt they are all black.

So naive -!

No idea, no way to confirm without being there.

Anything designed to be served "very cold" is because there is a reason. But I love this - "citrus wine and natural flavors." Wow

That's actually not the same one that I drank in my youth. The Night Train I used to buy was labelled a "fine apple wine," yeah, fine for getting hammered for a few bucks.

No evidence of racism, it seems. And frankly it's tiresome to have to inspect the situation for racism just because the subjects were minorities.

Yeah, that was pretty much my take on it, too. There are two things that stood out in my opinion: 1) the ejected woman belittled the idea that it was not a bar; 2) this happens about once a month. I joke about Night Train, but I would not expect the wine train to be racous. That suggests to me that these women were indeed behaving inappropriately and that the rail road handled it in a way consistent with previous incidents, so no, not racism. What really got my interest in posting the article was the sense that for some people, it can always be explained by racism. But if you are condemned for acting like a bitch, it's because you are acting like a bitch, not because you are acting like a black bitch.

Don't see anything to suggest racism here. I've never done the wine train myself, but I believe it's supposed to be a classy, dignified affair. If these ladies got to partying a little too hard, it's proper and expected that they'd get ejected.

Here's where the train company fucked up:

Why would you brag on social media about kicking people off your train? What was the point? The company was asking for this sort of PR backlash.

Next time they should get on the Colt 45 train. Works every time!

Seriously...



Please kill yourself, for Jesus

And this is why when a bunch of white people complain that a group of black people are "too loud," the immediate assumption is that they're all as low-brow ignorant as TLS, regardless of their expertise on wines.

He is decidedly not a credit to his race.

The black community can easily flip that snooty card, and often does.



Yes, they could tell boisterous whites to "Get off our train until you learn to behave."