British NHS dumps fat people and smokers

The Tories are in government in the UK, you'll notice, and are doing their best to destroy the NHS.

Because the current government is ideologically opposed to the NHS and is trying to kill it by death of a thousand cuts.

As for helping yourself to other folks' money: despite proclaiming we haven't got enough to pay welfare or healthcare, the politicians saw fit to help themselves to an 11% pay rise. And keep offering tax incentives to businesses that owe us millions.

For those of you who want to herald this as an example of why socialized healthcare doesn't work:

1. Please explain why it's categorically worse to be denied treatment due to rationing, than to be priced out of it, the latter of which is widespread in the US.

2. @matthunter is correct. There are political, ideological reasons why the NHS has these types of problems, and most other systems in Europe don't.

And when was the NHS ever well funded under any British government?

Please point to the Brits with gorgeous teeth, who must exist in large numbers under the socialist theory.

It was very well funded under the Blair/Brown administration.

By American standards of post 1930's health care, it was never well funded. That was the whole point. To save money - for rich people by taxing poor people for what used to be provided free by over billing wealthy people, which is how well compensated British health care professionals used to operate. Now they strike in sync with French garbage workers.

Health care professionals deserve a high compensation; they are at the top of community health provision, which is a must for any cohesive society.

As for making a 7 day NHS can't the doctors and associated medical staff can't just have some of them work weekends, but then take their two days off during the week? Many jobs do this, it's not uncommon at all.

I wish American doctors would work weekends.

Agree with you there! But their wages are only a part of the total cost. But IMO the people that take longer to train & are harder to replace (years for doctors & nurses for example) should be well compensated - that's only fair.

You and me both! We wouldn't have to take personal days or vacation just for our routine appointments.

I'm assuming John B is one of those day one posters that was before my time?

You might want to check out the difference between the NHS and a single payer system before making such a blatantly stupid statement. They are not remotely the same thing.

There is no real difference. Dumbass.

The National Health Service (NHS) is the publicly funded healthcare system for England. It is the largest and the oldest single-payer healthcare system in the world.

Some of them, like the U.K., have single-payer health care.

You're probably going to try the old, "well in single-payer the government doesn't own the hospitals nor are the doctors employees of the government" but that's just bullshit because the government essentially runs the whole system through regulation. You can't operate in the medical world under single-payer without government telling you what to do, how to do it, and when to do it. Essentially the government owns the system. It just pretends it doesn't so idiots like you can froth at the mouth about how single-payer is not the same as the NHS.

According to your argument, then, that regulation equates ownership, the US system now, and even pre-ACA, is indistinguishable from the NHS. Yeah, keep posting stupid if it suits you.

Gul, please read up on the facts. The NHS is the only healthcare provider and it is government owned. I. E. it is both the insurance and the provider. Other countries have government insurance but the providers are private companies competing to provide the service.

Both models are single payer but they are significantly different. The US has neither version.

The French system is actually almost as expensive but it provides way more generous benefits. Things like in home doctor visits and in home care.

Um, where have I said otherwise? Zombie is the guy arguing that there is no distinction.

Ok, never mind.

Stupid in what way? The way we do the business, the administration, the financing, or some other factors? I think it's the case of the US has the ability to develop the greatest healthcare in the world without being the most expensive, but we aren't motivated enough to do so - which pisses me off to no end BTW.

That is not true. The UK has private healthcare for those willing to pay for it, and increasingly the Tory government is subcontracting the function of the NHS to it.

I thought I recalled numbers being different back in 2009 when the ACA debate was raging.

Division Bell av should've clinched it, if there were any doubts.

A rare bird: worthwhile leftist. And a useful "John," one without the pretext of being polite while actually a meow bitch.

Don't run off too soon.

@Asyncritus mentioned once that they have a more a la carte insurance system, where a fairly healthy person could just pay for regular service out of pocket and pay insurance (private or gov't) for big shit that usually drives Americans into bankruptcy.

Good idea! Because generally medical problems are either relatively minor (very affordable for a one-time visit - getting a few stitches in your head and you are out the door) or very major (expensive tests, therapy, medications, specialists, etc. that often lead up to the inevitable costly surgery) that can be financially devastating. That said excessive plastic surgery and other non-essential treatments should be out-of-pocket. Disfigured or deformed people should of course get it free, especially kids.

Insurance doesn't cover plastic surgery in most cases, unless it's a quality of life thing like a cleft palate or something

I don't think that's quite the system in France, and if it were, they would have big problems. Such a system involving coverage only for expensive treatments would be hugely expensive. @steve2^4 can probably give us some good info, as he lived in France for many years.

It was a while ago, and I forgot the particulars.i think Ansyc bought private insurance for everyday stuff and the gov't plan for bigger things. But the key point was that it was far less expensive for everyday things because of how their system was set up.

Having insurance cover everything is why we have saline IVs that cost $800 when they cost less than a dollar to manufacture.